BeerBorg

Thanks MadBrewer, I forgot to include this screenshot of the estimated pH, which I've found to be a huge help when doing the water properties calculation.



The following are the different pH values taken over the course of the brewday.
5.41 pH - EZ calculated
5.12 pH - mash (room temperature)
4.49 pH - sparge water (room temperature)
5.23 pH - end of lauter [1.022] (room temperature)
5.05 pH - end of boil [1.059] (room temperature)



This is one of the tastiest, clearest and lightest worts I ever remember brewing. I'll admit its been 4 months since my last brewday but this wort really was noticeably different. I have to agree with you based on my results if I had targeted 5.50 in EZ Water Calculator instead of 5.41, my mash would have been closer to 5.20, based on my actual results.

I rehydrated a packet of Nottingham yeast and pitched it at about 68F and left it over my brewing buddy's, tomorrow morning I'll call and get a progress report on the fermentation. The cold break was nice and compact leaving the wort very clear and easy to get out of the kettle cleanly. All in all I'm already convinced that going forward I'll be modifying all of my brewing water, taking detailed brewing notes and as time goes on learning more and more about how subtle additions influence the finished beer.



If I'm lucky enough to have nailed it on my very first try, and at this point everything seems to indicate that, I will have taken my brewing to a whole new level. After several years of brewing all grain recipes I've tried to coax a somewhat elusive flavor component out of my brews. I describe it as a nice bready flavor that's apparent right after swallowing a sip of beer and breathing out through your nose.

Anyhow time will tell if I got it right or not, it'll be at least another three weeks before this latest batch is ready for tasting. I've already made plans to brew again in two weeks using the same recipe and a similar water profile but pitching lager yeast this time to try and replicate one of my favorite San Francisco beers.

It's great to see you brewing again Vince.
This thread has been instructional to me though I am extremely ignorant regarding my own water. I think I'm good but this info will come in handy as I continue my brewing adventures.

Sounds good Screwy. You just proved how accurate EZ water is at helping to estimate mash ph. It said you would have a room sample of 5.41 and your cooled sample at room temp must have read right around that estimate. So minus the .3 for a cooled sample, getting 5.1 in the mash isn't bad, but that's on the lower end of things. The post boil ph looks good too. You want a preboil ph about the same as you mash ph and it will drop .1 during the boil so you seem to be right on target.

Those little things you noticed are what happens when mash ph is in the optimum range, the rest just falls into place and makes for better beer down the line. Calcium content helps clear the beer and gives the yeast a good head start. Proper ph in the mash and sparge keeps down alkalinity and astringency issues. A proper boil ph keeps the hops from becoming harsh and overly bitter, something you want in an IPA. Be sure to post back what the ph of the finished beer is prior to chilling and kegging. I bet you fall right around the low 4.2 or so range. Finished beer ph at 68* should be 4.2-4.5.

MadBrewer wrote:Sounds good Screwy. You just proved how accurate EZ water is at helping to estimate mash ph. It said you would have a room sample of 5.41 and your cooled sample at room temp must have read right around that estimate. So minus the .3 for a cooled sample, getting 5.1 in the mash isn't bad, but that's on the lower end of things. The post boil ph looks good too. You want a preboil ph about the same as you mash ph and it will drop .1 during the boil so you seem to be right on target.

Those little things you noticed are what happens when mash ph is in the optimum range, the rest just falls into place and makes for better beer down the line. Calcium content helps clear the beer and gives the yeast a good head start. Proper ph in the mash and sparge keeps down alkalinity and astringency issues. A proper boil ph keeps the hops from becoming harsh and overly bitter, something you want in an IPA. Be sure to post back what the ph of the finished beer is prior to chilling and kegging. I bet you fall right around the low 4.2 or so range. Finished beer ph at 68* should be 4.2-4.5.

Therein lies the confusion. My 80F ph Reading was 5.12 making my 156F reading .3 points lower or 4.82 right?

About 15 minutes after dough in I opened the valve on the mash tun and poured a sample, cooled it in the freezer until it was around 80F to get a pH reading of 5.12, not the 5.41 calculated value I had hoped for. I was really careful to recalibrate the meter multiple times before taking and recording my readings.

The beer's fermenting away nicely and the wort was extremely clear and tasted great too before it went into the fermentor. I want to believe in the water calculator's accuracy and going through my notes I don't see the pH reading for the distilled water. But earlier in the week I did get a reading of "pH 6.92 - Distilled water from the food store" as I posted earlier.

Yeah that is wierd. Well that is quite low for mash ph. I punched in your info you posted and I came up with the exact water profile and ph estimate in my EZ Water Calculator, so no mistake there.

MadBrewer wrote:That does look like a nice easy calculator to use. One thing is missing though...it's not helping you calculate your mash ph. You can make all those adjustments to your water only to find the mash ph is not where you want it. Dont' forget acid such as Lactic or phosphoric is going to be a big contributor to your mash ph as well. Salts are mainly the flavor additions for a beer, sure they can help lower or raise your mash ph/alkalinity but the main factors of the brewing salts are "seasonings".

I still highly recommend checking out EZ water 3.0. It will do the same thing as the calculator you posted, but it also has calculations for what your acid additions will do and it calculates mash ph. I found it to be very accurate when used correctly. I've had great success with it.

Screwy, my apologize for hijacking this thread but I've been following it very closely and I just got a new ph meter and my water report form Ward labs and I got a question for Madbrewer about inputting my #'s into the ez-water spreadsheet. Do I add both the Bicarbonate (HCO3 ppm) # and the Alkalinity (CaCO3 ppm) #'s together and input it into the last box?

bucknut wrote:Screwy, my apologize for hijacking this thread but I've been following it very closely and I just got a new ph meter and my water report form Ward labs and I got a question for Madbrewer about inputting my #'s into the ez-water spreadsheet. Do I add both the Bicarbonate (HCO3 ppm) # and the Alkalinity (CaCO3 ppm) #'s together and input it into the last box?

Bucknut, you don't have to add both Alkalinity and Bicarbonate. For EZ water calculator you take either factor and input it into that last cell at the top right of the calculator. You then have to select which you are using, either Alkalinity or Bicarbonate. The calculator does the math based on either reading you put in, you just have to select which one you are using. The numbers of both are close in range, Bicarbonate usually being a little higher. It's easy to convert between the two. Take your Alkalinity reading X 1.22= Bicarbonate.

-Alkalinity is not a measure of ph, but it's a measure of the buffering capability to resist a change in ph. So the higher the Alkalinity the more it will resist change in ph. This is why high alkalinity brewing water doesn't allow the mash to fall into it's proper range.

-Bicarbonate is simply "the makup" of that Alkalinity, (it's Carbonate content).

Just to take a look, post your water report from Ward Labs. And ask any other questions you may have.

MadBrewer wrote:Yeah that is wierd. Well that is quite low for mash ph. I punched in your info you posted and I came up with the exact water profile and ph estimate in my EZ Water Calculator, so no mistake there.

This Saturday I'll be taking a hydrometer sample and adding my aroma hops so I'll get to take a taste of this batch for the first time since brewday. I'm thinking now I may have messed up my brewing notes somewhere when recording the pH readings. I was feeling a little discombobulated brewing on a new layout that we basically put together on the fly after not brewing at all for months.

As I recorded the pH readings during the brewday this is what I recorded, all at room temperature.
pH 6.92 - Distilled water
pH 5.12 - Strike water (4 gallons)
pH 4.49 - Sparge water (5 gallons)
ph 5.23 - End of lauter (gravity 1.019)
ph 5.07 - Wort sample (gravity 1.059)

If my measurements were correct and I wrote down the correct values too I will need to reduce the amount of lactic acid from 2.5 ml to 1.5 ml next time. That will raise the pH and lower the alkalinity levels by half while keeping the water profile salt and mineral values the same. Fun with water!

MadBrewer wrote:

bucknut wrote:Screwy, my apologize for hijacking this thread but I've been following it very closely and I just got a new ph meter and my water report form Ward labs and I got a question for Madbrewer about inputting my #'s into the ez-water spreadsheet. Do I add both the Bicarbonate (HCO3 ppm) # and the Alkalinity (CaCO3 ppm) #'s together and input it into the last box?

Bucknut, you don't have to add both Alkalinity and Bicarbonate. For EZ water calculator you take either factor and input it into that last cell at the top right of the calculator. You then have to select which you are using, either Alkalinity or Bicarbonate. The calculator does the math based on either reading you put in, you just have to select which one you are using. The numbers of both are close in range, Bicarbonate usually being a little higher. It's easy to convert between the two. Take your Alkalinity reading X 1.22= Bicarbonate.

-Alkalinity is not a measure of ph, but it's a measure of the buffering capability to resist a change in ph. So the higher the Alkalinity the more it will resist change in ph. This is why high alkalinity brewing water doesn't allow the mash to fall into it's proper range.

-Bicarbonate is simply "the makup" of that Alkalinity, (it's Carbonate content).

Just to take a look, post your water report from Ward Labs. And ask any other questions you may have.

Hey thanks for the info, I was using the spreadsheet from my google drive and it wasn't showing everything embedded in it. I don't have excel on my home pc so I opened at work and now I see what your talking about. Here's my #'s from my water report:

pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 77
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.13
Cations / Anions, me/L 1.2 / 1.1
ppm
Sodium, Na 12
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 10
Magnesium, Mg 2
Total Hardness, CaCO3 33
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 6, using 18 in ezwater
Chloride, Cl 11
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 22
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 18
Total Phosphorus, P 0.33
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit

Let me know your thoughts, I mostly brew ipa's and I love hops,
thanks

You have some great brewing water to start with. The Alkalinity and Bicarbonate is low so you will need very little or no reduction of that for most beers so acid will easily help you out in small amounts if needed. Theres a little bit of sodium which isnt a bad thing. Your So4 and Chloride levels are low so they can be adjusted per style of beer you are brewing. Magnesium is low and is not a factor you need to worry much about. The only thing is you need to boost your Calcium level. You can do that with Gypsum and Calcium Chloride. As is your Sulfate is higher so that helps bring out hop character and bitterness. You could brew with that water as is and probably like the results for most beers. But Calcium helps a lot of things in the beer like clarity. Basically you have nearly a clean slate to work with.

As long as you are an all grain brewer you can tailor your water per style you are brewing. For hoppy beers add some Gypsum to bring the Calcium level up to at least 30-50ppm. Gypsum will also bring uo your sulfate at the same time making it very fitting for hoppy beers. I would just open up Ez water and play around with Gypsum and Calcium Chloride additions and notice how it changes the profile. Take note of how it changes your ph and how it labels the profile malty balanced or bitter. If you want to brew some good dark beers forget the acid and you might actually need to raise alkalinity with chalk and or baking soda.

I use Open Office for most excel programs...EZ water works fine on it.

Tomorrow will be one full week in the fermentor, can't wait to taste a hydrometer sample of this beer to see how the water chemistry changed the original recipe. Another ounce of Cascades will soak in there for a week and I hope to package it up next Saturday. Updates to follow.

Last night I took a sample of the Clock Strukker IPA we brewed last Saturday, to check how the fermentation was coming along. The hydrometer reading was down from 1.059 to 1.025 already, the rehydrated Nottingham I pitched seems to be doing a good job at this point. The pH reading was down from 5.05 to 4.12 and I'm anxious to see how high the attenuation rate will be without pitching the large liquid yeast starters I'm used to using. The color of the sample was very light and in line with the SRM 4 recipe calculation for the grain bill. The sample was really cloudy with suspended yeast, but it'll clear up a lot by time I keg and bottle it.


The best part of the sampling was getting to taste the beer for the very first time. There were three of us involved in the taste testing and after a few rounds of high fiving it was confirmed, this beer was going to be very special. I was impressed with the taste because it had such a nice citrusy aroma up front followed by a delicious bready flavor at the back of the nose after each sip. This beer has all the aroma and flavor qualities I've always wanted in my beer!

The hydrometer sample has the look of a wheat beer and can be easily mistaken for one but its CaraPils and 2 Row. I have a feeling the body will work well with the estimated 5.5% ABV too. I'd like to thank MadBrewer for taking the time to help me with some much appreciated pointers, especially for the introduction to EZ Water Calculator! This is one tool every brewer should have on hand when putting together a recipe. If I hadn't experienced it for myself I would never have believed it. How some simple water property modifications could coax so much more flavor from the same grain bill I've used countless times before.

The bug has bit, the brewing flames have been rekindled and I'm back planning to brew again next weekend. I'll be using qBrew for the recipe calculations and EZ Water Calculator for the water properties calculations to design the recipe for my first attempt at a 'Steam Beer'.

Glad to hear things went well for you Screwy, I too have been bitten and can't wait to brew tomorrow. Been using ez-water and I've got the ph meter calibrated and ready to go.

I'm unable to see your pics, not sure if it's on my end or not but would love to see them but there just not showing up.

bucknut wrote:Glad to hear things went well for you Screwy, I too have been bitten and can't wait to brew tomorrow. Been using ez-water and I've got the ph meter calibrated and ready to go.

I'm unable to see your pics, not sure if it's on my end or not but would love to see them but there just not showing up.

Glad to hear it. Calibrating and using a pH meter can seem intimidating until you actually own one and see how simple it is to use. Thank you for pointing out the issue with the pictures in my posts, I've been able to figure out what I was doing wrong and they are displaying now.

Brewing today and using the ph meter, and may have found some issues with my "cheap" meter. It came with a powder calibration solution that you mix with distilled water, a 4.01 cal and a 6.86 solution. Well I didn't use them but instead bought a 4.0 and a 7.0 pre-mixed solution and I had issues with the calibration using the pre-mixed solutions. I would cal to get the 7 but then be high with the 4 ph solution, and there's only one set screw to adjust, so I ended up just splitting the diff, 4.2 and 6.8 with the pre-mixed solutions. So I think that it's just the cheap meter and it's limits that are effecting the calibration.

Anyhow today I got a reading of 5.84 at 68 degrees for my mash ph, not going to do any adjustments on the fly, will wait to see what I end up with and If anyone can give me some input on maybe why I was high on my reading, ez-water predicted 5.52.

Here's the meter I got off Amazon, meter