BeerBorg

The calibration is very important to accurate readings. If you are calibrating a meter to 4.2 with 4.0 calibration fluid well theres two points off right there. If the meter thinks 4.2 is 4.0 then you will read high. Thats your starting point so calibration is very important.

MadBrewer wrote:The calibration is very important to accurate readings. If you are calibrating a meter to 4.2 with 4.0 calibration fluid well theres two points off right there. If the meter thinks 4.2 is 4.0 then you will read high. Thats your starting point so calibration is very important.

Makes sense, going to just sub .2 from my readings til I can mix up some of the cal solution that came with my meter. So I had a 5.64ph mash, close but no cigar, a little high but ok I think.

Into the fermentor It tasted good, and I hit my 70% eff, my ph reading was 5.62 or 5.42 with my meter. Is that normal for the ph to start and then finish there? Thanks again for the help.

You may or may not have been much higher than estimated...cant really say until you properly calibrate the meter.

As far as pre boil ph you want that ph to be similar to your mash ph. So that will depend on where you were at with mash ph. During the boil the ph will drop a pont or two and you want to end up anywhere between 5. and 5.4 at the end of the boil or going into the fermenter rather. So in your case yeah 5.4 sounds fine.

Now if later on with batches to come you have better mash ph of say 5.2 a preboil ph of 5.3 and a post boil ph of 5.4 or 5.5 going into the fermenter this means you are carrying over alkalinity from your sparge water so you might need or want to acidify the sparge water slightly so this dont happen. A tiny bit of Lactic acid will do the trick. Sparge ph should never go over 6. If you acidify your sparge water to say 5.5 or so this will never be a problem. This is what I have to do because of my high alkalinity water. I acidify my sparge water before I heat it up to 5.6 or 5.8 that Iis plenty and helps keep things from going too low.

Makes sense, going to just sub .2 from my readings til I can mix up some of the cal solution that came with my meter. So I had a 5.64ph mash, close but no cigar, a little high but ok I think.

Into the fermentor It tasted good, and I hit my 70% eff, my ph reading was 5.62 or 5.42 with my meter. Is that normal for the ph to start and then finish there? Thanks again for the help.

Was your mash reading taken at room temperature, I was curious because mine was at pH 5.12 during last week's brewday.

By the end of the boil my room temperature pH was at 5.05 and a week into the fermentation it had dropped to pH 4.12. Like MadBrewer said getting your meter calibrated is key to getting accurate readings. My meter was definitely better than I was at calibrating itself, all I had to do was look at it's prompts and I was ready to go.

Yea, I MUST get a proper calibration of my meter before I can say with any certainty that I'm confident with the readings.

That said I think I was in the ballpark and now I just need to fine tune some things. I did a BIAB on this brew day and I didn't sparge the grains, sometimes I'll use a cooler mash tun and batch sparge so I'll keep the lactic acid in mind.

ScrewyBrewer wrote:

Makes sense, going to just sub .2 from my readings til I can mix up some of the cal solution that came with my meter. So I had a 5.64ph mash, close but no cigar, a little high but ok I think.

Into the fermentor It tasted good, and I hit my 70% eff, my ph reading was 5.62 or 5.42 with my meter. Is that normal for the ph to start and then finish there? Thanks again for the help.

Question were your mash readings done at room temperature?

Yea, I cooled all the samples down to 68 degrees before taking the reading.

I looked back at your water report Bucknut and Alkalinity shouldnt be a problem for youm As long as you are getting a good mash ph you should be good for most beers except really light ones. A little lactic acid in the mash and if you usually dont sparge nothing to worry about there.

Something to note is EZ water calculator states that ph estimate gets less accurate for higher water to grain ratios. Since you do BIAB that something to consider with such high water amounts in the mash.

MadBrewer wrote:I looked back at your water report Bucknut and Alkalinity shouldnt be a problem for youm As long as you are getting a good mash ph you should be good for most beers except really light ones. A little lactic acid in the mash and if you usually dont sparge nothing to worry about there.

Something to note is EZ water calculator states that ph estimate gets less accurate for higher water to grain ratios. Since you do BIAB that something to consider with such high water amounts in the mash.

Thanks for that tip about EZ Water Calculator MadBrewer, do you have an idea on what 'less accurate' boils down to? No pun intended but implied.

I started down this watery path because I plan to brew BIAB beginning this summer. I know traditional mash thickness rules don't apply to the BIAB RIMS system I'll be using because it continuously recirculates the full wort volume. I know a few test runs are needed for me to dial in the new system once I get it, but having a ballpark range to start in would be very helpful.

Screwy, I have no idea how the accuracy changes with the water to grain ratio. It's probably not a huge factor, but I guess enough to make note of it. Maybe try punching in your recipe with a regular water to grain ratio and then see what the difference is when you factor in the actual water amounts you will be using.

For as simple as the EZ Water is, I've had great success with it. Either using my own filtered tap water and making adjustments or starting from RO, the ph has been very close to what was estimated. Again it is just a ph estimate and it's enough to get you in the ballpark. I tend to shoot for a ph of about 5.6 from the calculator at room temp so that the actual mash temp is around 5.3 give or take. For me that is a happy medium and gives a little lee-way up or down. Something I read in the Water book was Sierra Nevada strives for the same thing...a mash ph of 5.3 for all their beers.

MB you're right, by tinkering with what became yesterday's brewday water profile I was able to get both the strike and sparge water amounts to be equal. I used the full DI water volume of 10 gallons which is what the RIMS system will use too. The pH of the DI water was 5.75 and after adding the seasonings the strike water was at pH 3.70. About 25 minutes in I stirred the mash and took a pH sample, after cooling to room temperature it was at 5.21. That's pH 0.20 points lower than where EZ Water Calculator modeled it to be but still within acceptable range for me.

Yesterday's wort was extremely clear and the 12 SRM color looked perfect to me. We noticed that since brewing with our modified water profiles the top of the grain bed had what looked like very fine sand mixed in it. We both noticed it after the lauter when we were emptying grains out of the mash tun. No doubt this finer material in the grain bed had something to with the wort clarity we've been getting too. Even the cold break in the kettle looked more compacted and solid and the wort was really clear.

Tonight we got to taste the Clock Strukker IPA we brewed a little over 3 weeks ago. The water profile adjustments really made this beer taste good, lots of hop aroma with that coveted bready finish I love so much. We kegged 3 gallons last Saturday and force carbonated it at 12psi and tonight the carbonation was perfect. I only wish we had enough to keg 30 gallons because we could have kicked the entire 3 gallons tonight.


I still have ten 12 ounce bottles naturally carbonating that I plan on using as samples in a month or two, they'll be the only beers left from this batch that actually get to condition for an extended period of time. After having my pipeline dry up for months this little trickle is going to evaporate way too soon.

ScrewyBrewer wrote:Tonight we got to taste the Clock Strukker IPA we brewed a little over 3 weeks ago. The water profile adjustments really made this beer taste good, lots of hop aroma with that coveted bready finish I love so much. We kegged 3 gallons last Saturday and force carbonated it at 12psi and tonight the carbonation was perfect. I only wish we had enough to keg 30 gallons because we could have kicked the entire 3 gallons tonight.


I still have ten 12 ounce bottles naturally carbonating that I plan on using as samples in a month or two, they'll be the only beers left from this batch that actually get to condition for an extended period of time. After having my pipeline dry up for months this little trickle is going to evaporate way too soon.

Glad to see all the work on the water profile is paying off, Screwy. I've been reading your posts on your site as well and looking forward to the next part of the water posts. We've been getting deep into water (no pun intended) over the last several months, reading up on it, adjusting the profile, etc. and have noticed a significant difference in the beer quality.

Putting together our water kit to move forward with. The best thing about most of these items is they are low priced and they make an overall noticeable better beer. Tough to not to want to get more knowledgeable on your water profile if you value better beer.

Thanks Eddie! I've been following your posts on your nano-brewery start up too. Here in NJ we're currently looking into getting the process started for the Screwy Brewing Company. I was down to Naples Beach Brewery in FL a few months ago and I liked what I saw and the the NJ laws are pretty similar. Now we're following along with the progress of "Little Dog Brewing Company" starting up in Neptune City NJ. Currently we're still trying to find a good location to have a tap room/brewery tour on premise with take out food from a nearby restaurant. A 1,200 square foot commercial property is plenty big to house a 1 barrel system, cooling room, office, bathroom and taproom. Having water included with the rent is a huge plus too, but the demand for a quality beer will quickly outpace the output of a 1 barrel system.

Tomorrow we're brewing our first Cascadian Dark Ale using a modified water profile, so for the next installment I post we should have half a dozen beer styles to pick from. If I hadn't done the proof of concept brews using modified water profiles myself, I would have missed out on a huge opportunity to take my beers to a professional level. I have to thank John Palmer's book 'Water' for providing a dizzying amount of information because once my head stopped spinning with all the information I realized just how much I had to learn. The book didn't provide any specific brewing examples but it did spike my interest and got me motivated to find answers. This morning I'm putting the finishing touches on the recipe and the water profile over my morning coffee, I'll be checking on your progress too it'll be great to compare notes on your future brewery plans!

ScrewyBrewer wrote:Here in NJ we're currently looking into getting the process started for the Screwy Brewing Company.

WOW! Vince, this is great. All the best to you.

I only recently came across this thread (the title of the first post didn't scream "this is an interesting and educational water discussion"), and want to thank everyone who has contributed to it. And of course, special thanks to the Brewers, Screwy and Mad!

For the three years I've been brewing, I've barely given water a second thought. That has just recently started to change, and finding this thread now was good timing. I've decided to do more BIAB and PM brewing, so there's no better time for me to bring my water knowledge up to speed.

While water is obviously a much bigger concern for all-grain brewers, even extract/steeping brewers like me can benefit from giving consideration to their water profile. While my beers are all good (some very good, IIMSSM), one characteristic that often crops up is astringency, and/or "lingering bitterness." I found this thread at HBT, which made me think of something I hadn't before: when you use extract, you're inheriting the water profile of the extract producer, and then potentially compounding imbalances with your own water. This can often lead to astringency. It got me thinking about using some distilled water in my extract brews, and I have my first such batch fermenting currently. I'm very curious to see how that turns out.

So again - thanks for the helpful discussion. And, best of luck on pursuing The Dream, Screwy! That's big news...deserving of its own thread, I would say (hint, hint).