BeerBorg

In about 3 weeks I'm going to be making the MB El Diablo Blanco IPA.

I've read through some threads on other message boards and it seems like people aren't really happy (or hoppy) with the way it's turned out. I do not want this to be a sweet beer. Ideally, I'd like something like Saranac White IPA. Something bitter, floral and refreshing citrus. It's been suggested that I not use the T-58 yeast.

I've got a little bit of time to get other ingredients. So what should/could I do to improve this before brew day?

I am drinking one of them that I made now that came out good.

The one I'm drinking I added 1/2# of DME and hop bursted a total of an ounce of Nelson Sauvin (very high AA) hops in that DME and water and then added the extract. I overfilled to get the OG down a bit so it would finish at a lower FG. Added more then 20 IBUs even though it was just a hop burst instead of a full boil. I also let the T58 free rise up to 74, I didn't try to control it's temps. That helps it finish.

If you absolutely, no matter what, don't want it to be sweet, then I suggest you use Bella Saison instead of T-58. That will dry it out, and combined with as much high AA hops as I used it should really make it more like an IPA. If you don't just want to go and buy a pack of that yeast, order one of the Summer Seasonals if you haven't already and then brew it and this and split the yeast between them. (the Summer Seasonal is really good beer). Or if you have one then do that with the one you have. If you overfill to 2.3-2.4 gallons to get the OG down a bit then half a pack is enough for both cans and both beers are fine with being overfilled with added hops. They won't come out "watery" like if you overfilled one of the little cans. The summer seasonal doesn't need to be brewed full strength to be a good saison. IMHO it's actually better diluted a bit, as it lets the yeast profile stand out more. My last one finished 1.002 and I hit it with a touch of citra hops. It's excellent.

You will likely get very good carbonation with Bella, so if previous brews had little head and you want to tweak carbonation, wait for the next brew.

I let it sit for 3 weeks in the LBK and carbed well under Mr.Beer suggestions, and still had awesome carb levels.

I brewed this one and still don't understand what the flavor was supposed to be. Of course I've not had a commercial White IPA so I really didn't have anything to measure this one against. To me mine ended up bitter and sweet. I like IPA's but unsure if this is what I was expecting.
Sorry, my post probably didn't help as I really don't know how to defeat the bitterness and make it taste a little better. Both of the IPA's that I've made with MB came out bitter so just watch or maybe understand how to keep it from getting bitter.

Thanks. The Bella Saison yeast was mentioned in another thread. I'm a bit leery to use it however. I've only had two Saison's and I wasn't thrilled with either of them. I was hoping for a better option. Maybe I should just brew it with something like Wyeast 3944 (Witbier)???

Root Skier wrote:Thanks. The Bella Saison yeast was mentioned in another thread. I'm a bit leery to use it however. I've only had two Saison's and I wasn't thrilled with either of them. I was hoping for a better option. Maybe I should just brew it with something like Wyeast 3944 (Witbier)???

It depends on what saisons you are comparing to.

T-58 and Bella Saison have a similar flavor profile, except that the Bella ferments out much drier. I use T-58 as a pseudo-saison yeast sometimes, and just use a lot more (20%ish) sugar in my bill to get it to dry out. It works.

T-58 and Bella and French saisoln are peppery/spicy in their profile with some fruit. Bella will give you a more tart/citrus like vibe, where T-58 has more melon like fruits and some banana (if fermented warm) and/or more clove like spices (if fermented cool).

Where say a Belgian saison yeast has bubblegum like notes thrown in.

If the saisons you had (say Dupont for example) had bubblegum flavors you didn't like, the T-58 or Bella will NOT give those. If they had weird hay like funk or other funky flavors or pinapple like flavors or other sweaty blanket flavors, the Bella isn't going to give you those either. Those would have been brett saisons.

mashani wrote:

Root Skier wrote:Thanks. The Bella Saison yeast was mentioned in another thread. I'm a bit leery to use it however. I've only had two Saison's and I wasn't thrilled with either of them. I was hoping for a better option. Maybe I should just brew it with something like Wyeast 3944 (Witbier)???

It depends on what saisons you are comparing to.

T-58 and Bella Saison have a similar flavor profile, except that the Bella ferments out much drier. I use T-58 as a pseudo-saison yeast sometimes, and just use a lot more (20%ish) sugar in my bill to get it to dry out. It works.

T-58 and Bella and French saisoln are peppery/spicy in their profile with some fruit. Bella will give you a more tart/citrus like vibe, where T-58 has more melon like fruits and some banana (if fermented warm) and/or more clove like spices (if fermented cool).

Where say a Belgian saison yeast has bubblegum like notes thrown in.

If the saisons you had (say Dupont for example) had bubblegum flavors you didn't like, the T-58 or Bella will NOT give those. If they had weird hay like funk or other funky flavors or pinapple like flavors or other sweaty blanket flavors, the Bella isn't going to give you those either. Those would have been brett saisons.

Well, I was out at Whole Foods yesterday getting supplies for my hard cider, and I decided to stop in thier bar to see what was on tap. Low and behold, they had Magic Hat Seance Saison on tap. This was better than other's I've had but I was kinda disapointed with the low abv in this brew. I see what you mean by fermenting out drier though. I guess I'll give that yeast a try.

I made my El Diablo Blanco per the Mr. Beer instructions using the T-58 yeast, and compared to the plain White IPA the Blanco was a little more bitter with a little more hop flavor. It was still somewhat sweet however. Nowhere near the hoppiness of a Saranac White IPA. If that's your target you'll need lots more hops for bittering, flavor and aroma than the recipe for El Diablo Blanco calls for. I think Saranac's White IPA used Citra, but more Falconer's Flight or Falconer's Flight 7C's would be good too.

I made the White IPA using the Belle Saison yeast instead of the T-58 and it came out much drier. I think you'll like it if you use it for your El Diablo Blanco.

I brewed this up this weekend, following the directions except for the yeast. I used the Belle Saison.





So far it looks great. 18 hours after I pitched the yeast, there was a solid inch of krausen. M says the basement smells like a brewery, and she's ok with I that. Double win because my office is in the basement and also it smells like a brewery.


I'm going to draw off a sample in a week and see how it's doing. I some have Citra if I decide to dry hop it.

Update: I drew a sample last night. It's good and it's not sweet. I think I'd like to add some Citra hops but I have no idea how much to use. Suggestions?

As much as you like! 1/2oz would be conservative/safe and just tweak it a bit, 1oz would not be too much IMHO, but it depends on what you want.

I want a White IPA, so I guess I'll throw the whole ounce in.

Over the weekend, I racked this to my secondary/bottling container.

Here's what it looks like. It's a nice tasting beer, however it needs more citrus and hop aroma.


So I added the whole ounce of Citra hops I had. The good news is it calculated out at 8.1% abv (OG 1.066 FG 1.004)


I'm not sure how long to let this sit? I guess I'll take a sample in a week and see how it tastes.

Maybe I'm missing something so correct me if I'm wrong. But one of your earlier pics shows a gravity of 1.066 or so...and now, 2 weeks later it's 1.072ish. How did the gravity go up in two weeks time???

BlackDuck wrote:Maybe I'm missing something so correct me if I'm wrong. But one of your earlier pics shows a gravity of 1.066 or so...and now, 2 weeks later it's 1.072ish. How did the gravity go up in two weeks time???

LOL, good catch. Who knows. I've been really bad about keeping brew notes and just reviewed the pics on my phone.