BeerBorg

I've decided that an American pale ale is the hoppiest style of beer that I do like, because the malt still stands out, but the fruity flavors of the hops aren't too bitter, and finish very smooth. That said, I'm wanting a similar experience, but I don't want to use the typical C hops found in American hoppy beers. Galaxy and Amarillo sound like really good candidates based on the descriptions I've read. I was thinking of mixing one of those with some Belma (which is set for release on the 22nd of Nov.) to get a citrusy/melon/passion fruit combo. What say you, Borg?

That sounds tasty! If you want a nice hoppy pale ale that has very smooth bittering, skip the 60 min addition altogether and hopburst it starting at 20 min. For a 5-gallon batch, an ounce of hops (mixed) at 20,15,10, and 5 min (so 4 oz total) plus a couple ounces dry hopped will give you an excellent hoppy but not bitter APA. Keep us posted!

russki wrote:That sounds tasty! If you want a nice hoppy pale ale that has very smooth bittering, skip the 60 min addition altogether and hopburst it starting at 20 min. For a 5-gallon batch, an ounce of hops (mixed) at 20,15,10, and 5 min (so 4 oz total) plus a couple ounces dry hopped will give you an excellent hoppy but not bitter APA. Keep us posted!

I've been wanting to try this to shorten the brew day. Why is it that the general consensus is that it takes 60 minutes of boiling to break down the resins if people are getting results with shorter boils?

Looks good Phil! Sounds like a tasty APA, and the hopbursting will give you lots of flavor, seems reminiscent of my Silver City Sunset process.

And to try and answer the question from Brewbirds, you are kind of right. The thing about this process of hopbursting is that you can achieve bitterness and great flavor, but it requires quite a bit more hops. Where a 1/4 oz will get you a lot of bitterness at 60, you need more than 1/2 oz to achieve bitterness with the shorter boil. It is a trade off between having to use a crap load of hops or boiling longer to achieve the bitterness. I hope that helps a bit..

Brewbirds wrote:

russki wrote:That sounds tasty! If you want a nice hoppy pale ale that has very smooth bittering, skip the 60 min addition altogether and hopburst it starting at 20 min. For a 5-gallon batch, an ounce of hops (mixed) at 20,15,10, and 5 min (so 4 oz total) plus a couple ounces dry hopped will give you an excellent hoppy but not bitter APA. Keep us posted!

I've been wanting to try this to shorten the brew day. Why is it that the general consensus is that it takes 60 minutes of boiling to break down the resins if people are getting results with shorter boils?

You need a 60 (or 90) minute boil when brewing all-grain to remove DMS precursors from the wort. With extract, it's already been boiled and DMS precursors removed, so you don't have to boil it longer than your longest hop addition. I've made plenty of extract beers with 20 min boils - makes for a really short brewday.

Hey Phil,

For the Lemon Shark I do I use Nuggets and Citra. That is a 30 min boil on the nuggets (extract with steep).

Thank you all for the input! I'm gonna give this a shot with the Belma and Galaxy, and with your suggestions, have come up with a tentative recipe as follows (for 2.5 gallon batch):

4.00 lb US 2-row
1.00 lb Victory
0.50 lb Crystal 60L
0.25 lb Carapils

0.25 oz Belma @ 20 min
0.25 oz Galaxy @ 20 min
0.25 oz Belma @ 5 min
0.25 oz Galaxy @ 5 min
0.55 oz Belma dry hop @ 3 days
0.55 oz Galaxy dry hop @ 3 days.

1.059 OG, 37 IBUs, 14 SRM

The combination of strawberry/melon from the Belma should play well with the citrusy/passion fruit from Galaxy I think. Gonna be a very tropical brew, with plenty of malty backbone to smooth it out. Citra was another hop that I was considering. Still have plenty of time to think this through.

I also love Amarillo in about anything. I think I sent you a red that used Amarillo and cascades.

I recall an India Red Ale you sent me. That one was pretty good. Your Lemon Shark one was my favorite one, if I remember correctly. Gonna have to hook me up w/ the recipe one day!

Doh.. I did send you the IRA, not the amarillo red. I am losing track of what I send people. . I will send you the lemon shark recipe. The real key with that one is using good quality fresh lemons. I have tried it with dried lemon peel and concentrated lemon juice but they don't do what the fresh lemon does.

I figure others might be interested. This is the original and so far the best version of this I have done.

Recipe Lemon Shark Original Style American Pale Ale
Brewer Carcharodon Brewing Batch 2.25 gal
Extract

Recipe Characteristics
Recipe Gravity 1.070 OG Estimated FG 1.018 FG
Recipe Bitterness 40 IBU Alcohol by Volume 6.8%
Recipe Color 7° SRM Alcohol by Weight 5.3%

Ingredients
Quantity Grain Type Use
3.50 lb Briess DME - Pilsen Light Extract Extract
0.25 lb CaraPils - [Body, Head] Grain Steeped
0.25 lb Crystal 10L - [Body, Caramel, Head, Sweet] Grain Steeped
0.50 lb Crystal 20L - [Body, Caramel, Head, Sweet] Grain Steeped
Quantity Hop Type Time
0.50 oz Citra - Musky tropical fruit and strong citrus make this a great flavor/aroma hop very fruity Pellet 0 minutes
0.25 oz Citra - Musky tropical fruit and strong citrus make this a great flavor/aroma hop very fruity Pellet 20 minutes
0.25 oz Citra - Musky tropical fruit and strong citrus make this a great flavor/aroma hop very fruity Pellet 10 minutes
0.25 oz Nugget - Bittering hop spicy-herbal Pellet 30 minutes

Quantity Misc Notes
1.00 unit Lemon Zest Yeast
1.00 unit Safale S-05 Dry Ale Yeast Yeast American: Temperature Range: 59°-75° F 11.5 GRAMS

Recipe Notes

add fresh lemon zest last 8 min of boil
add fresh lemon juice from 2 lemons after adding wort to the lbk.
These were 2 large lemons.

philm00x wrote:Thank you all for the input! I'm gonna give this a shot with the Belma and Galaxy, and with your suggestions, have come up with a tentative recipe as follows (for 2.5 gallon batch):

4.00 lb US 2-row
1.00 lb Victory
0.50 lb Crystal 60L
0.25 lb Carapils

0.25 oz Belma @ 20 min
0.25 oz Galaxy @ 20 min
0.25 oz Belma @ 5 min
0.25 oz Galaxy @ 5 min
0.55 oz Belma dry hop @ 3 days
0.55 oz Galaxy dry hop @ 3 days.

1.059 OG, 37 IBUs, 14 SRM

The combination of strawberry/melon from the Belma should play well with the citrusy/passion fruit from Galaxy I think. Gonna be a very tropical brew, with plenty of malty backbone to smooth it out. Citra was another hop that I was considering. Still have plenty of time to think this through.

Needs more hops methinks - I know it calculates out to 37 ibus, but in real life it'll be closer to 20 perceived with this hop schedule. I would do the same 0.5 oz mix of Belma and Galaxy at 15 and 10 min also, this may put you closer to 37 ibus (perceived, not calculated). The way it is now, it'll be woefully underhopped, IMHO.

Remember, you can never have too many late hops!

Russki, thanks! Although, this is for a pale ale, not an IPA. I want the malt to come through in the flavor, but with a good hop aroma (which will lend itself in flavor as well). I came up with a compromise:

0.20 oz Belma @ 20 min
0.20 oz Galaxy @ 20 min
0.20 oz Belma @ 10 min
0.20 oz Galaxy @ 10 min
0.25 oz Belma @ 5 min
0.25 oz Galaxy @ 5 min
0.75 oz Belma dry hop @ 3 days
0.75 oz Galaxy dry hop @ 3 days

IBUs bumped up to 46 for IBU/OG ratio of 0.784 which is actually quite close to the ratio that Widmer uses on their Alchemy Ale so that has to be in the right direction. What do you think?

brewin bull wrote:I figure others might be interested. This is the original and so far the best version of this I have done.

Recipe Lemon Shark Original Style American Pale Ale
Brewer Carcharodon Brewing Batch 2.25 gal
Extract

Recipe Characteristics
Recipe Gravity 1.070 OG Estimated FG 1.018 FG
Recipe Bitterness 40 IBU Alcohol by Volume 6.8%
Recipe Color 7° SRM Alcohol by Weight 5.3%

Ingredients
Quantity Grain Type Use
3.50 lb Briess DME - Pilsen Light Extract Extract
0.25 lb CaraPils - [Body, Head] Grain Steeped
0.25 lb Crystal 10L - [Body, Caramel, Head, Sweet] Grain Steeped
0.50 lb Crystal 20L - [Body, Caramel, Head, Sweet] Grain Steeped
Quantity Hop Type Time
0.50 oz Citra - Musky tropical fruit and strong citrus make this a great flavor/aroma hop very fruity Pellet 0 minutes
0.25 oz Citra - Musky tropical fruit and strong citrus make this a great flavor/aroma hop very fruity Pellet 20 minutes
0.25 oz Citra - Musky tropical fruit and strong citrus make this a great flavor/aroma hop very fruity Pellet 10 minutes
0.25 oz Nugget - Bittering hop spicy-herbal Pellet 30 minutes

Quantity Misc Notes
1.00 unit Lemon Zest Yeast
1.00 unit Safale S-05 Dry Ale Yeast Yeast American: Temperature Range: 59°-75° F 11.5 GRAMS

Recipe Notes

add fresh lemon zest last 8 min of boil
add fresh lemon juice from 2 lemons after adding wort to the lbk.
These were 2 large lemons.

Thanks, Bret! I added this to Beersmith, and converted to AG.

philm00x wrote:Russki, thanks! Although, this is for a pale ale, not an IPA. I want the malt to come through in the flavor, but with a good hop aroma (which will lend itself in flavor as well). I came up with a compromise:

0.20 oz Belma @ 20 min
0.20 oz Galaxy @ 20 min
0.20 oz Belma @ 10 min
0.20 oz Galaxy @ 10 min
0.25 oz Belma @ 5 min
0.25 oz Galaxy @ 5 min
0.75 oz Belma dry hop @ 3 days
0.75 oz Galaxy dry hop @ 3 days

IBUs bumped up to 46 for IBU/OG ratio of 0.784 which is actually quite close to the ratio that Widmer uses on their Alchemy Ale so that has to be in the right direction. What do you think?

I personally find that without the bittering addition, late hops don't lend much bitterness, even when used in large quantities. I think this schedule will give you a nice hoppy flavor and aroma without much bitterness. Try it this way, and adjust it from there! You have a good amount of specialty malts in the recipe, so I would venture to say that the maltiness will certainly come through. What yeast are you using?