Kicking Around a Saison Recipe

[Funky Skunk Brewing]

Looking for some more feedback on a Saison recipe we were kicking around today at lunch. Heading down to our local micro brewery (Pensacola Bay Brewery) to have a few pints with the brew master and go over this one with him as well this evening. FYI, this is a 25 gallon recipe so we may brew up a small 5 gallon batch to see how it comes out before we kick off a 25 gallon batch. Obviously a lot easier at that size (5 gallons) and it turn out bad than to waste 25 gallons of beer. Ok, thoughts anyone?

Grain Bill
25 lbs. Belgian Pilsner
11.25 lbs. German Vienna
5.5 lbs. Torrified Wheat
5 lbs. 10L Crystal

3.75 ozs. Sterling @60
2 ozs. Saaz @15
1.5 ozs. Glacier Dry Hop

Wyeast 3711 French Saison

Some QBrew Estimates
IBU - 26
SRM - 6
OG - 1.051
FG - 1.013
ABV - 5%

Process
Mash 14.6 Gallons @ 155
Sparge 21.5 Gallons @ 168
1.25 Mash Thickness

[Inkleg]

Depends on how close to style your going for.
I'd say leave out the Crystal 10 and mash at a lower temperature around 150 to help dry it out, keeping closer to style.
Saisons are meant to be dry not sweet, my Saison FG came in at 0.098.

[haerbob3]

Wyeast 3711 French Saison is a good yeast to use. It will ferment at a wide range of temps. In it's lower range it is clean at the top end very flavorful. As Ink suggested I would lower the mash temp. I mash my saisons @ 148* for 90 mins.

~~Bob

[Funky Skunk Brewing]

Interesting on the mash temps, though I agree now seeing it, that's why I posted up here on the Borg was to get some honest feedback. I will play with these suggestions and see where it takes the recipe. Thanks for the input guys. Much appreciated.

[mashani]

IMHO using some Munich instead of the crystal would be ok. That kind of maltitude is a good thing. Your getting some of this with the Vienna, but the Munich just kicks it up a notch.

Also consider trying some rye sometime, rye works really well in saisons.

Also, although I agree with the mash temps as a general rule of thumb, Wyeast French Saison is a beast. It will ferment out a 1.05ish *extract beer* to 1.004 or <. So you don't have to fear a slightly higher mash temp leaving you a sweeter beer with it, as long as you pitch it correctly and ferment it warm. Its still going to be dry. But do let your fermentation temps get warm. It likes that and makes better beer then if you ferment cool the entire time. If it gets to 78-80 that's not too hot. Don't take it higher then that however, it's not like Belgian Saison, it does not get stuck and need insanity to finish.

Also nothing wrong with using some sugar if you really want it to dry out even more. Sugar is perfectly legit in a saison, especially a higher abv version.

Also just FYI, I am convinced that Danstar Bella Saison is the same yeast as French Saison. Everything I've made with it tastes just like it would if I had used it. So whatever you like, if you somehow need a dry alternative in a pinch, that yeast would work for you.

[Funky Skunk Brewing]

IMHO using some Munich instead of the crystal would be ok. That kind of maltitude is a good thing. Your getting some of this with the Vienna, but the Munich just kicks it up a notch.

Also consider trying some rye sometime, rye works really well in saisons.

Also, although I agree with the mash temps as a general rule of thumb, Wyeast French Saison is a beast. It will ferment out a 1.05ish *extract beer* to 1.004 or <. So you don't have to fear a slightly higher mash temp leaving you a sweeter beer with it, as long as you pitch it correctly and ferment it warm. Its still going to be dry. But do let your fermentation temps get warm. It likes that and makes better beer then if you ferment cool the entire time. If it gets to 78-80 that's not too hot. Don't take it higher then that however, it's not like Belgian Saison, it does not get stuck and need insanity to finish.

Also nothing wrong with using some sugar if you really want it to dry out even more. Sugar is perfectly legit in a saison, especially a higher abv version.

Also just FYI, I am convinced that Danstar Bella Saison is the same yeast as French Saison. Everything I've made with it tastes just like it would if I had used it. So whatever you like, if you somehow need a dry alternative in a pinch, that yeast would work for you.

I considered that yeast as an alternative actually, as I too have had beers with both and taste no differences (other than the beer obviously).

I'll play around with the Munich instead of the Crystal to see what's going on there as well. Give Rye a go too. Thinking we'll brew a 5 gallon of this with some tweaks along the way to see how it ends up. Read some on Saison fermentation as well and I was going to get the temps around 75 or so, as I thought this range would be fine. Sticking with that with this batch.

Thanks for all the input guys. This is a taste recipe so anything we want to try we'll give it a go and see how it turns out. Looking for another "session" type brew for our tasting in March and thought a Saison would be a good route to go with. Kick around some of the suggestions mashani posted there and see how it works.

[mashani]

75 is a good temperature for that yeast.

It's the Belgian (DuPont like) kind that gets wonky and makes you take it up to 90 to get it to finish sometimes.

[Gymrat]

First Mashini is a munich head

Second belle saison didnt want to finish my saison for me so I added a pound of corn sugar a week into fermentation and it went back to work. Finished at 1.006 for an estimated 1.065 OG.

[dbrowning]

Belles saison took last to 1.004 staring with og 1.066
the beer is outstanding

[Funky Skunk Brewing]

Good stuff fellows, thanks for all the insight. This will most likely be an early brew in 2014 of the 5 gallon test batch variety to see if it is something we can move forward with. As always thanks to the for coming through with some advice and insights from past experiences. Love this community.

[mashani]

First Mashini is a munich head

Second belle saison didnt want to finish my saison for me so I added a pound of corn sugar a week into fermentation and it went back to work. Finished at 1.006 for an estimated 1.065 OG.

That's interesting, I've never had French Saison or Bella get stuck. What were your temps at that point? Usually a week into fermentation mine are around 76+ when brewing a saison. I start them in the 60s and then ramp it up.

As far as being a Munich head - yep. That is me.