BeerBorg

OK, I got Saisons down pretty well. Learned a ton there, but now I am starting on blonde / cream ales.

The one I made yesterday started out a blonde, but might be a cream, they are so close. I kinda was thinking creamy, so that's why the 2 oz of oats, it should at least give it a nice head and mouth feel.

Recipe
Steeped in 1/2 gallon of water 155F 30 minutes:
4 oz CaraPil
4 oz Honey Malt
2 oz flaked oats

Added water to bring it up to 1.25 gallons.
1 LB pilsner DME
boiled 2 oz Czech Saaz (2.9%) for 10 minutes for about 20 ibu (used my new hop spider, a 300 micron SS screen cylinder - worked AWESOME, only got a very fine dust, < 300 micron, out in the wort.)

Then added .25 lb pilsner (used it up)
.75lb light DME
6 oz honey

Estimated ABV 4.5%

of course there was .11 campden tablet for the chlorinated tap water. (I just used a scissors to shave 1/10 of the tablet off - close enough)
1/2 whirlfloc
2 drops Fermcap-S
2 tsp urea (yeast energizer)

pitched rehydrated Nottingham yeast

OG 1.052 estimated was 1.042, so I either picked up more sugar from the steep than BS figured, or missed my volume. And it will probably be over 4.5%.

Monty

With this not being a Saison, are you experiencing chills, shaking, weirder thoughts & general despair? If so go to the hospital you are in withdrawal!!!

Sounds tasty though!!!

Regular old beer is good sometimes

haerbob3 wrote:With this not being a Saison, are you experiencing chills, shaking, weirder thoughts & general despair? If so go to the hospital you are in withdrawal!!!

Sounds tasty though!!!

Ha Ha, yes this is a regular old beer. I am not going through withdrawal from Saisons, because they are all too high a gravity to drink right now, and the drinkable ones aren't ready yet, but don't worry, there is enough to keep me going into the summer.

You must remember that the Saison escapade was all about learning how to do hop boils, and perfecting a process for making extract beer. I think I successfully tested it all using a style of beer that pretty much forgives any mistakes, a Saison. Now I want to try out making a simple refreshing non-bitter ale.

Anyway, I needed corn in that first one to make it a Cream Ale, so its a Blonde. I intend on getting some instant grits and adding it to the recipe above in order to taste the difference. And I guess I'll need to toss in some amylase and/or six-row and make that steep a mash.

Monty

I'm making a cream ale my next brew day, myself. Nothing fancy, because this is my intro to the style, and I also want a simple beer that will be ready fairly quickly. But if I like it, I'll modify the recipe as needed and make it again. Cream ales are especially good for summer drinking.

The BB's and I put together a tasty cream ale, last year.

monsteroyd wrote:

haerbob3 wrote:With this not being a Saison, are you experiencing chills, shaking, weirder thoughts & general despair? If so go to the hospital you are in withdrawal!!!

Sounds tasty though!!!

Ha Ha, yes this is a regular old beer. I am not going through withdrawal from Saisons, because they are all too high a gravity to drink right now, and the drinkable ones aren't ready yet, but don't worry, there is enough to keep me going into the summer.

You must remember that the Saison escapade was all about learning how to do hop boils, and perfecting a process for making extract beer. I think I successfully tested it all using a style of beer that pretty much forgives any mistakes, a Saison. Now I want to try out making a simple refreshing non-bitter ale.

Anyway, I needed corn in that first one to make it a Cream Ale, so its a Blonde. I intend on getting some instant grits and adding it to the recipe above in order to taste the difference. And I guess I'll need to toss in some amylase and/or six-row and make that steep a mash.

Monty

Just when I'm about to start brewing Saisons.......

We must be think the same though. I have 2 Saison coming up ( RCE with JPShermam ) that I am very excited about. But also have the cream ale in the line up after that.

If you are feeling hoppy, you can always add a bunch of flavor/aroma hops to your basic cream ale to make a great pale ale. Nice balance between malty goodness, and refreshing hops!

jpsherman wrote:If you are feeling hoppy, you can always add a bunch of flavor/aroma hops to your basic cream ale to make a great pale ale. Nice balance between malty goodness, and refreshing hops!

Hey, when I do a hop boil it is never beyond 15 minutes. Even a ten minute boil adds bitterness. I usually do a 1-2 oz boil for 10 minutes, so basically all I ever do is flavor and aroma. You still get IBU. Remember that hop boiling chart is for MAXIMUM utilization, so even in a 10 minute boil I can get 20 IBU's depending on the amount and the alpha %. I am not doing the 60 minute wort boil, I don't need to cause I use extract. It's already been done when they make the extract. I think it is a mis-understanding in brewing to believe that ALL boils must be for 60 minutes. All grain recipes HAVE to be boiled that long, for DMS, hot break, etc., but luckily, us extract doesn't. The only down-side so far that I have found for extract beers is I can't buy already mashed corn, rice or oats extract.

Monty

monsteroyd wrote:

jpsherman wrote:If you are feeling hoppy, you can always add a bunch of flavor/aroma hops to your basic cream ale to make a great pale ale. Nice balance between malty goodness, and refreshing hops!

Hey, when I do a hop boil it is never beyond 15 minutes. Even a ten minute boil adds bitterness. I usually do a 1-2 oz boil for 10 minutes, so basically all I ever do is flavor and aroma. You still get IBU. Remember that hop boiling chart is for MAXIMUM utilization, so even in a 10 minute boil I can get 20 IBU's depending on the amount and the alpha %. I am not doing the 60 minute wort boil, I don't need to cause I use extract. It's already been done when they make the extract. I think it is a mis-understanding in brewing to believe that ALL boils must be for 60 minutes. All grain recipes HAVE to be boiled that long, for DMS, hot break, etc., but luckily, us extract doesn't. The only down-side so far that I have found for extract beers is I can't buy already mashed corn, rice or oats extract.

Monty

If you are using a hopped extract then that is true. The majority of LME & DME sold are unhopped.

haerbob3 wrote:

monsteroyd wrote:

jpsherman wrote:If you are feeling hoppy, you can always add a bunch of flavor/aroma hops to your basic cream ale to make a great pale ale. Nice balance between malty goodness, and refreshing hops!

Hey, when I do a hop boil it is never beyond 15 minutes. Even a ten minute boil adds bitterness. I usually do a 1-2 oz boil for 10 minutes, so basically all I ever do is flavor and aroma. You still get IBU. Remember that hop boiling chart is for MAXIMUM utilization, so even in a 10 minute boil I can get 20 IBU's depending on the amount and the alpha %. I am not doing the 60 minute wort boil, I don't need to cause I use extract. It's already been done when they make the extract. I think it is a mis-understanding in brewing to believe that ALL boils must be for 60 minutes. All grain recipes HAVE to be boiled that long, for DMS, hot break, etc., but luckily, us extract doesn't. The only down-side so far that I have found for extract beers is I can't buy already mashed corn, rice or oats extract.

Monty

If you are using a hopped extract then that is true. The majority of LME & DME sold are unhopped.

It it was hopped extract you wouldn't boil it at all.

He's basically talking about hop bursting, getting all of your IBUs from later additions. With no worries about boiling off DMS, you can get away with shorter boils.

" I don't need to cause I use extract. It's already been done when they make the extract."

the above is incorrect most extracts do no contain hops I am while aware of hop bursting I have been doing it for years

You don't have to boil extract for 60 minutes unless you want/need a 60 minute hop addition for your recipe. That's what the statement is.

Either you're misreading it, or I'm completely missing the point of where his statement is wrong.... Either way, cheers and happy hump day.

I am well aware you don't need a 60 minute boil. I was trying to point out that a cream ale recipe easily converts into a tasty pale ale with late hop additions.

ok guys, I can see how what I wrote was confusing. I meant that I already do ONLY aroma/taste boils, never longer than 10-15 mins. I think what I do is called First Wort Hopping, where I throw the hops in when I turn on the heat and start heating the wort up to boil, so the hops are in longer than the 10-15 minutes, but only boil for that long. I'm not real sure what defines hop bursting, but I think it is a bunch of hops, like 5 or 6 oz added right at the end of the boil. And I get the jpsherman advice about changing a cream ale into a pale ale, but the very reason I am doing a blonde / cream ale is to AVOID the increased bitterness of a pale ale vs cream ale.

I didn't mean to get this all stirred up, but as I was writing my original reply, it dawned on me that 60 minutes boils may be a process remnant of all grain brewing and that extract recipes don't have to boil the wort that long because it was already boiled when they made the extract. I know from what I've done in the Saison madness, that the 10 minute boils work ok for bittering, and I don't get a creamed corn taste in the beer, so no DMS.

This gets into another question, why do we boil the wort? well one reason is for isomerization of alpha hop oils for bitterness to balance the malt sweetness, but if I did a grain mash for my wort, I also have to boil the wort to drive off DMS. Does it take an hour to drive it off? Also, I guess we do it for the hot break when we make wort from mashing grains. (it has already been done with extract)

Is this why we boil mashed grain in all grain wort for 60 minutes?
1) bitterness from hops
2) drive off DMS
3) hot break
4) others?

Monty