jivex5k wrote:yankfan9 wrote:Thanks! Yeah I wouldn't think Brett would be used in a Berliner, but what do I know? I am wondering if I could just skip adding the brett and stick with just the lacto pack instead. If I'm not mistaken Lacto takes much less time than Brett. That could be an option for me, I would just have to designate a fermentor for sours after that. I may also look into a way similar to yours to do a sour mash
Yeah after 5 days using lacto it's pretty sour.
I didn't use any lacto package, just threw in a bit more than a handful of unmilled grain. 2 row in my case. Let it stay warm for 5 days and now it's really sour.
Lacto is way faster than brett, and his a more pronounced tartness, but you won't get that funk that brett gives.
There's a third bacteria called pedio that sours as well, not sure how that one works but it's also long term.
There are different kinds of Brett which have somewhat different characteristics. Brett C is the mellowest, and it's what got loose in my house and infects some of my summer beers every year. It's like hay and pineapple. Where other kinds of Brett give you stuff like Orval Trappist (Sweaty Horse Blanket and Leather). Lacto gets you more sour much quicker. It takes a good long time for Brett to really get it's full character in the beer. I don't sweat my summer brett infections, and I don't wait - I just bottle it and drink it young. I don't mind the hay and pinapple. Bleach bombing the fermenter has always gotten rid of the Brett in the fermenter for me. I will get re-infected at some point but that's cuz it gets blown around in my air, it's not the equipment.
Pedio... pedio is not something you want in your beer if you want to drink it soon. It can make weird stringly looking stuff that "hangs around" in your wort. It makes boat loads of diaceyl which will eventually go away, but stuff gets really rancid tasting for a while until it does.
If you want a "fast to drink sour" a pure lacto culture or the sour mash is the way to go IMHO.
An old school Berliner would have been infected with just about anything because it was a wild beer brewed in the 1600s. They didn't know jack about sanitation, bacteria, yeast, they didn't know what any of it was or how it worked really - it was all just "shit that happened and made beer!" - but because they were (and still are if you got them in Europe in a pub) traditionally consumed right away - really fresh - the only thing that really gets a foothold and does a lot is the lacto. They are not meant to be complex aged sours like a Flemish red or the like.
My bet is that modern versions are most often brewed with a pure lacto culture because again in Europe they would be consumed very fresh.