Experiment 626

[Kealia]

I don't know what else to call this one. I had 4lbs of Maris Otter LME left over and some hops from previous brews so I took the opportunity today to do another 15-minute boil brew. I haven't tested the last batch of MO LME that I did similar to this one, but what the hell, right?

I mixed this one up by doing a hop-stand instead of the 10 and 5 minute additions.

So I give you: Experiment 626


Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: Extract
Bottling Volume: 3.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 5.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 66.3 IBUs
Boil Time: 15 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 1 -
3.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.0 %
4.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.0 %
3 lbs 11.2 oz Liquid Marris Otter (4.5 SRM) Extract 5 88.1 %
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 14.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 20.5 IBUs
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 8 -
1 Items Servomyces (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 9 -
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - HOPSTAND 30.0 Hop 10 31.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 11 -
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Da Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Day Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs


I actually came up a bit shy of 4lbs of LME but still hit my target gravity - go figure (and I wasn't under on volume).

The plan on this one is to ferment --> cold crash --> rack to keg and add dry hops for 5 days --> remove hops and let it condition for about 2 weeks before carbing.

We'll see what happens. I wanted to brew today but just didn't have a full AG day in me. And this time of year is still great for beers so if I have to buy some - so be it.

[BlackDuck]

Looks intersting. I need to give one of these 15 minute jobbies a try some time.

[Kealia]

I feel like things have come full circle in a way. I started off with MrB, then went to AG and now I'm playing with LME again.
The main reasons for these brews are:
1) They are quick and easy pipeline fillers
2) I wanted to see how I like Maris Otter as a base malt.

As you recall, we traded some PMs about maybe making my Summer Ale using MO next time so I wanted to get some learnings in.

[Kealia]

I'll be checking the gravity on this tonight and likely starting the cold crash so I can then dry hop. When I peaked in on the carboy this morning the beer was already pretty clear - even at the bottom.

Looks like it is moving along quite nicely.

[Beer-lord]

Don't you want to dry hop when the temp is a bit warmer to extract as much as possible then cold crash?
What temperature do you guys cold crash? Now that I'm living large with a fermentation fridge/freezer, I was thinking of dropping down to 42 over 3 days.

[BigPapaG]

I generally dry hop at room temp, which for me is usually also fermenation temp.

I don't cold crash but would expect the extraction of oils and aromatics to take a bit longer at cooler temps.

The idea is to get as much yeast to floc and drop out as possible.

For me, waiting until day 18 or so seems to work fine... And then I only need 2-3 days of contact.

I suspect cold crashing first works at least as well... Maybe a little better depending on the floc characteristics of the yeast in question...

[Kealia]

Yes, dry hopping at fermentation temps works better (maybe just faster?) according to most people/reading.

My plan (which I wasn't clear about earlier) is to:
Cold crash
Rack to keg (where hop yumminess is awaiting)
Let it rise back to room temp naturally (leaving it for a total of 5 days) to dry hop
Remove hops
Carb

The aromatic hop oils (somebody can insert the proper term here, if needed) do bind to the yeast so people who dry hop without clearing/crashing the beer first aren't getting as much out of them as you could. Two identical beers, both dry hopped but one cold crashed before the dry hop and one after, should have a noticeable difference in the aroma. What I'm avoiding is having a lot of my hop aroma being dropped out when the yeast falls out.

Paul, I crash at 40/42 because that's as low as my wine fridge will go. If I could, I would go down to close to freezing (34). But, I've also been happy with my results so I can't complain that I can't go lower. Most people will tell you "as cold as you can get".

[zorak1066]

if you use just LME, and do a 20 minute hop boil only for say a 2.5 gallon batch... how does that impact your end results? logically your ibu's will be lower but what about taste?

im toying with a 20 minute lme saison. I think I can manage to do this one indoors on the stove without pumping a bazillion gallons of steam into the house. (mold is a big concern at the new place) curious as to the impact of a 20 minute boil instead of a 60.

[Dawg LB Steve]

Zorak, I just did a quick SMaSH recipe in my ipods Brewer Friend for you using:
4 lbs Pilsen LME and 1 oz of Amarillo @ 20 for 2.5 G batch comes out as 5.3% ABV, 37.5 IBU. When I put the hops @ 60 I get almost 62 IBU. In the graph associated with the hops, somewhere here listed, shows more flavor and aroma around the 20 mark and more bittering at the 60 mark. So it looks like you will get some bitter but more flavor and aroma.

[Kealia]

My main concern when I did the first 15-minute pale ale was that it would be too sweet. But, by loading up on the late hop additions it adds some bitterness, too. I was pleasantly surprised which is why I decided to do it again for a quick brew day (well, that and the fact that I had the leftover LME).

[mashani]

if you use just LME, and do a 20 minute hop boil only for say a 2.5 gallon batch... how does that impact your end results? logically your ibu's will be lower but what about taste?

im toying with a 20 minute lme saison. I think I can manage to do this one indoors on the stove without pumping a bazillion gallons of steam into the house. (mold is a big concern at the new place) curious as to the impact of a 20 minute boil instead of a 60.

One of the best 2.5 gallon batches I made last year was nothing more then a 20 minute boil saison of MoreBeer Pilsner LME, a little bit of wheat DME, and 1oz of Pacific Gem hops which are like "high test fuggles", and Bella Saison. Being 12%AA hops, I threw some in at 20 for my "bittering" some more at 10, and did a short hop stand with the rest I think. (might have been 1/4oz, 1/4oz, 1/2oz, I'd have to go find the recipe). I got plenty of bitterness for a saison, and got lots of earthy/spicy/fuggly/styrian like flavors and slight aroma which is what I tend to like in hop forward saisons. Some people seem to hate Pacific Gem hops (they mostly were trying to make IPAs out of them) - but they were great in this beer. Since I commando'd the hops, the 20 and 10 additions likely counted more as if they were 25/15 from a utilization standpoint.

You *will* get flavor from a 20 minute addition, so simply choose hops that you would want to flavor that style of beer. I like styrians in saisons, so that's why I tried it with that hop.

EDIT: Also FWIW, I recently brewed a "15 minute boil dubbel" where I used just 1/2oz of high AA el-dorodo hops at 15 minute mark, and it's got more then enough bitter for a dubbel. I again specifically chose that hop figuring the flavors from it would not make the dubbel seem totally wrong because normally dubbels don't have much hop flavor and used a high AA hop to limit the amount of hops needed to balance the malt without adding "too much" flavor. It worked out well.

So don't fear a short boil is what I am saying, just put a bit of thought into it.

[zorak1066]

awesomeness... I may be able to make beer again! 20 minute boils...here I come, at least til I can afford propane and a grain mill and...

here's what I'm kicking around. the numbers match a saison, which is what I was shooting for:

2.5 gallons batch
boil 20 minute
style saison
3 gallon boil

1 lb lme munich
2 lb lme wheat
1 lb lme pilsen

.25 lb german carafoam steep for body

.5 oz tettnanger pellet 20 minutes
.5 oz spalt pellet 15 minute
.5 oz saaz pellet 8 minute

possible substitution of citra for tettnanger? going for spicy, fruity

danstar bella saison yeast 1 sachet, ferment in a water filled cooler with an aquarium heater set at 78f for the duration of 3 weeks.

I was thinking about using whirlfoc to get a clearer final product but isn't saison a low flocculating yeast? wouldn't that kind of be counter productive?

I get OG 1.059 FG 1.012 though I know it will be lower...saison yeast munches like mad, just not violently
abv 6.15% ibu 23 , srm 5.53

estimated cost to make for supplies from lhbs $25 for 2.5 gallons.

[mashani]

I've done Santium + Citra and that was good.

All the hops you mentioned are good with Bella.

Citra is also good with Bella.

With Bella, you probaly don't want your heater set at 78 until after the krausen starts to fall. It's ok if the fermenter free rises up to 78 during fermentation, but that's WORT temperature, not ambient temperature outside the fermenter. Once the krausen falls, then sure set the temp at 78 if you like and it will finish bone dry. My bet is that beer finishes 1.004 or lower, even though it's extract. But bella does not need 80-90 degree fermentation temps like Belgian saison does. It's probably OK if it gets into the 80s, but it doesn't need it.

EDIT:

FWIW, if you are concerned about steam/mold - as what you are brewing is all extract, you *can* boil that with a lid mostly on. You will not get DMS in the final product by doing so. I know, because I've done it. I'm a heretic like that, I try things you aren't supposed to try to see what happens. This works fine and it lets you boil at a lower flame and kick less steam into the air.

[zorak1066]

heretic! (consults the Witches Hammer to see if this is an indication of sorcery... darn.. does not mention anything about boiling wort with lids on)...

uh oh... you got me thinking mashani. would the lack of dms be because someone already has boiled it all out to make the extract?

thanks for all the helpful hints and such over the years, Obiwan Mashani.

dunno if it is all the caffeine I drank in the last 2 hours or if I'm all a-buzz with the excitement that I will be making beer by next week.. if only a small batch.

Mashani, would you add about a 1/4 oz each of orange peel and coriander at flame out to this? or would that overcomplicate the recipe and detract from the funky goodness of the yeast, and the hops?

[Kealia]

thanks for all the helpful hints and such over the years, Obiwan Mashani.

I think a new nickname has just been born!


As for boiling with the lid on, I 'm not sure what to think about this one. On the one hand it's the temperature of the wort that creates the DMS so boiling it (even if it's already been boiled) should in theory create more - in which case I wouldn't recommend the lid being on.
On the other hand, the recommended time to boil Pilsner malt is 90-minutes suggesting that there is a finite amount of DMS that can be made so if it the LME/DME has already been boiled maybe it shouldn't be an issue.

mashani - I trust that you've done with without issue before, I'm just questioning the science behind it. For example, I've seen brewer's that say things like "I've never used sanitizer before and I have no issues" but I wouldn't recommend it as a Best Practice.

What I'm getting at is: Is your practice based solely on experience or is there data showing that no DMS is created from LME/DME?
Interesting topic that I honestly don't know the answer to.

Oh yeah - I threw 626 into the fridge last night to cold crash. Saturday night or Sunday morning I'll rack it to the keg for dry hopping.