Chocolate Stout Questions??

[BlackDuck]

I think I want to make a Chocolate Stout. I found a recipe on HBT and based mine very closely to the one I found.....

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chocolate Stout
Brewer: Antler Brewing
Style: Sweet Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.84 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.29 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 35.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 70.2 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.5 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.5 %
8.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.3 %
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 15.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 Hop 6 6.5 IBUs
8.00 oz Cocoa Powder (Boil 10.0 mins) Flavor 7 -
1 lbs Milk Sugar (Lactose) [Boil for 10 min](0 Sugar 8 8.5 %
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) Yeast 9 -
3.50 tsp Chocolate Extract (Bottling 0.0 mins) Spice 10 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 3.36 gal of water at 168.2 F 154.0 F 75 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.77 gal water at 168.0 F

I've never made a chocolate stout so I have a few questions that I hope you guys/gals can help me out with:

1. How much lactose? The recipe on HBT (6 gallon batch) is 1 pound also. Mine will be 5.5 gallons. Just wondering how I know what the right amount of lactose to use is?
2. How long do these kind of beers take to condition?
3. Does the FG sound right? It's real close to the one on HBT, but I always thought that stouts usually finish higher that that, around 1.020 give or take a few points.

Thanks in advance for the answers, and any other suggestions/points of interest/or just general stout musings you have to offer.

[Beer-lord]

Haven't used lactose but all the recipes I have in my collection show 8 oz for a 5 gallon batch. 1 pound seems to me to be alot but do they give you any info in the HBT thread?
My regular stouts always have finished higher and I've not enjoyed any of them until way after 5 weeks.
I plan on doing a stout and letting it keg condition about 6 weeks before adding it to the kegerator but I've kept stouts in the bottle that really get smooth at 4 months thought that's way past when you need too.

[BlackDuck]

I don't think it gave any info on the lactose, but I didn't read a ton of the postings either. I'll read more and see if anything is mentioned.

[Beer-lord]

I did a quick search just now on a number of recipes at HBT and there are quite a few listing 1 lb of lactose so I guess you're good. Even saw one on Northern Brewer's site with 1 lb. Me thinks I'm going to try a stout with lactose since I never have but, I've thoroughly enjoyed all my stouts and think they have been some of my best beers. It's hard to mess them up since all the roasted barely and chocolate really hide any possible off flavors (except for fusels).

[Inkleg]

1. ? Don't know on that as I've never used it yet.

2. With an OG of just 1.054, 4-6 weeks and start trying them. The RBS I set was around there. I'll check my notes when I get home on OG, FG and time.

3. maybe I'm blind, but I don't see FG listed in your post.

4. I hear stouts go good in Rum barrels.

[BlackDuck]

Sorry about the FG....I forgot that BeerSmith doesn't put it anywhere when you save it as a text file. It's estimated at 1.012. No rum for this one....since it's loaded with chocolate. I after a really chocolate flavor.

[mashani]

I can tell you that adding a small amount (say 1 TBSP) of real vanilla extract or some vanilla bean in the boil will bring out the chocolate even more. If your looking to kick it up to 11, that will help. But make sure it's REAL, not artificial. Artificial stuff will make it taste nasty.

FG is yeast specific as well as the grain bill... (IE if using Windsor it would more likely end up 1.02ish then with S-04) but for whatever it's worth, you've got a couple pounds of mostly unfermentable stuff in there, so if your brewing software is calculating them as fermentable you may find a higher FG then you think.

[BlackDuck]

I can tell you that adding a small amount (say 1 TBSP) of real vanilla extract or some vanilla bean in the boil will bring out the chocolate even more. If your looking to kick it up to 11, that will help. But make sure it's REAL, not artificial. Artificial stuff will make it taste nasty.

Thanks for that suggestions....I'll think that over. I must be missing something though. What do you mean by "kick it up to 11"?

EDIT....also, I think that BeerSmith may be set so that the Lactose is fermentable, which it is not. I checked and the program shows a Potential of 1.035 SG and Yield of 76.09%. Should these numbers be backed down?

[Inkleg]

I must be missing something though. What do you mean by "kick it up to 11"?

Vanilla will really help bring out the chocolate notes.

[Beer-lord]

Too young for Spinal Tap I see.

[mashani]

The SG of the lactose is ok, but it's something like 99% unfermentable by most beer yeast. So the yield should be 1% not 75% I think. (IE your FG should increase by nearly as much as the OG contribution).

[BlackDuck]

Thanks Mashani, I appreciate the insight. I'll have to adjust it at work tomorrow, cause the recipe is on my desktop version of BeerSmith, I haven't sent it to the cloud yet to get on my iPad.

And the 11 thing went right over my head. That clip from Spinal Tap is awesome!!!

[ScrewyBrewer]

I always add a tablespoon of pure vanilla extract to the bottling bucket, its said to kick up the chocolate flavors and I believe it does. I've never used that yeast though I've always used WLP-004 or WLP-007 for my dry or dry chocolate stouts and have had good results after three or four weeks of conditioning.

[BlackDuck]

Well.....that's two votes by two experienced guys suggesting I add a little pure vanilla extract, guess I'll have to make the addition to my recipe.

Thanks guys!!

By the way Mashani, I adjusted the setting on BeerSmith so the Yield was 1% and it automatically adjusted the SG to 1.000. So, I'm just going to leave it as is and see what happens. The hydro will tell me when it's done!! And I'm still reading more on the HBT thread where I found the recipe. Once I have the final recipe written, I'll start a new thread with that.

Thanks again guys for the insight!!!

[Foothiller]

For the FG, it depends on the yeast as mashani notes: generally, less attenuation for English yeasts than for American. FG also depends on the mash temperature: less fermentable for mash temperatures above about 153 F.

As for the conditioning time, I brewed what was intended as an American Stout in January, but it was under-attenuated using Nottingham yeast (OG = 1.064, FG = 1.022), so in a competition in May I entered it as a Sweet Stout. (No lactose in there, so I can't comment on that.) It got good compliments and scored 34, although I thought that the roast was too dominant, that it needed more body, and that I wanted more chocolate. Then I had one last night, and things had mellowed to where it was smooth, well-balanced, and very pleasant.

I'll look forward to seeing your results when it's ready.