BeerBorg

After our chat, I looked for some recipes, this one sounds interesting, have a look: saison

I don't know what you two have been talking about, but that looks like a really good, and really simple saison recipe.

I'll let phil say, it's his gig. But we chat'd for a bit last night and he got me interested in one. Now I'm on the search for a Saison Dupont, I have to try one.. must try one... it sounds Yummy! saison-dupont

@Both of you... the grain bill in the recipe from the first post is fine. So are the hops.

That recipe has Wyeast 3711 as the yeast though. That is fine it will make a tasty Saison - But that is French Saison yeast - it pretty much tastes and acts exactly the same as Danstar Bella Saison. Dry, a bit peppery, tart and citrusy.

I love French/Bella saison.

But it won't make DuPont. Dupont has all that, but it also has Bubblegum and other esters that French Saison or Bella will not make. To make DuPont clone you must use Belgian Saison yeast instead. The proper strains for a DuPont clone are either Wyeast 3724, or else WLP565.

White Labs has *totally stupid* information about this yeast on their web site, the a low recommended temperature range, and then tell you to add some other yeast to get it to finish and they say it will only get 75% attenuation or something like that. They are NUTS. They are "doing it wrong". Continue reading...

In either case - to make that yeast effectively ferment out and to make the proper flavors to be like DuPont you need to start in the mid-upper 70s, let it get up the upper 80s, even 90 is ok, and then be sure to keep going up to 90 by the end of the first 5 days or so, and then KEEP IT THERE until it's done. For finishing, even warmer then 90 is fine. I've finished a saison with it where it got up to 95-96 degrees in my attic in the summer and it was fine.

You do not and should not follow those numbers given by White Labs. You need to ferment at the proper temps, and for this yeast it's 80-90... and be patient, it may still take 3-4 weeks to finish (do not secondary it - just leave it in there until it's done... it's not dead, it's lazy... crank up the heat if you are still in the 80s.). And if you treat it right it will attenuate 90+%. Maybe not quite as much as French or Bella. But it can get close. I've had 1.057 beer go to 1.001 with it.

Both of those yeasts came from DuPont and THEY ferment the beer up into the 90s. Since it's their strain, I think they know what they are doing... so ignore White Labs temp ranges and silliness.

If you treat those yeasts right you will be rewarded.

If it really does get stuck, some Bella on hand will finish it and make good beer still - but you should not need to do that if you keep it warm and happy.

FIT, thanks for this post! I might brew this straight up for a batch and then try to gauge the tweaks I want to do to it from there. I've never brewed one before so I guess I'll have to buy a bottle of DuPont and do a side by side, to make sure I'm going in the right direction.

philm00x wrote:FIT, thanks for this post! I might brew this straight up for a batch and then try to gauge the tweaks I want to do to it from there. I've never brewed one before so I guess I'll have to buy a bottle of DuPont and do a side by side, to make sure I'm going in the right direction.

If you (or any one else) find a bottle of it, let me know, I can't find it here, looked this weekend. Would be happy to pay for a couple bottles and shipping to try one and harvest their yeast from it.

I can get ya one, FIT. I'll go by the store this week n see if they got it.

Mashani, I really have to agree with you on the temperature and wonder myself why the heck they continue to post that rubbish. Maybe they took lessons from MrB saying you can have beer ready to drink in 10 days. I used that strain for my first 5 gallon before I had the benefit of this collective wisdom. After several weeks and no activity I ASSumed that it was done and bottled. Thus far my first and only batch of bottle bombs, and the only batch I couldnt make better and had to dump a majority after trying to choke many down. If I didnt do the research I most likely would have went back to MrB batches and stayed there, much like many MrB brewers quit when they follow MrB's directions.