Zesty lemon Saison

Post by **Beer-lord** » Tue May 19, 2015 1:33 pm

In the coming month or so I'm going to be doing my first Saison, mostly for the wife. However, since I'm going to be drinking it, I'll want to be somewhat hoppy.
I've not yet begun to put together a recipe but do have a fresh packet of Belle Saison yeast. I'm not sure if I'm wanting mostly pilsner malt or to keep it 2 row for a base malt.
So, I'd appreciate any thoughts and help on a recipe. Maybe pilsner, a touch of vienna and a decent amount of wheat malt????

I plan on using some lemon zest late in the boil or whirlpool and wonder if using the new Lemondrop hops would be overkill. I'm looking for a somewhat tart finish which should be easy with the yeast.

jimjohson · Post by **jimjohson** » Tue May 19, 2015 2:31 pm

use some Sorachi Ace hops

Post by **Beer-lord** » Tue May 19, 2015 2:41 pm

Yea, that's what I originally wrote down but completely forgot about it. Don't have any, been wanting to try some and bingo, I think I will.
Thanks for helping an old man find his memory!

Inkleg · Post by **Inkleg** » Tue May 19, 2015 6:24 pm

My house Saison recipe has 75% Pilsner, 10% vienna and wheat the other % dextrose.
Tettnang 1.25oz at 60, 1oz at 20 and .75 at 5

Simple but good. Think I'd swap out the dextrose for wheat next time as that yeast will ferment an old sock. I'll have to check my notes, but I starter fermentation at 68 and ramped it up to 80+ by the end of the week. Thanks, I now think it's time to brew it again.

Post by **Beer-lord** » Tue May 19, 2015 7:06 pm

So basically, pitch at 68 and let it rise on it's own? I think this will be better fermenting in a 78 degree house instead of a keezer with the temp set at 80. It should rise to the mid 70's with fermentation alone and with the home at 78, I think could get into the lower 80's, will that be enough?
What do I lose in taste from the yeast if it only stays in the upper 70's?

Inkleg · Post by **Inkleg** » Tue May 19, 2015 8:09 pm

Yes.

Nothing.

Hope that helps.

Post by **Beer-lord** » Tue May 19, 2015 8:35 pm

Thanks. I'll tweak the recipe and get to this in about a month or so.

mashani · Post by **mashani** » Wed May 20, 2015 12:07 am

If you want a lot of lemon nose, then dry hop an large amount of Sorachi. To make something like Brooklyn Brewery "A Sorachi Ace" about 4oz of dry hop in 5 gallons is what you are looking at... seriously! Maybe even 5oz.

If using 3711/Bella (French Saison), anywhere in the 70s is enough. 80 won't hurt but isn't needed for it to finish. Free rise is fine. You don't *need* any sugar no matter how big your grain bill with 3711/Bella IMHO. It will ferment starch (it really will, it's genetically related to wild beer infecting yeast). It will ferment large crystal malt sugar chains too. It just depends on how dry/tart you want it. It's going to be dry/tart regardless. Munich or Vienna helps leave some malt flavor if your looking for some. Hitting the 70s, it always finishes 1.004 or < for me, even with a 1.067 all extract beer, so really low mash temps are likely irrelevant. I've had it ferment a grain + extract + sugar batch down to 0.997ish area. Normally I try to brew 1.05 or < beers with it so I'm not pushing 8%+ ABV.

If you make another and use Belgian Saison, then you need to get it into the mid-upper 80s, even 90s after a week and a half or two weeks. It's a totally different animal, and kind of a bastard at times. But it makes excellent bubblegum like flavor/aromas.

Knowing your tendencies, I will warn you to *keep the IBUS LOW*. If your going to add a lot of hops, add them all at the end, so you get the flavor/aroma you want without the IBUs. It will ferment out dry and tart to begin with, so too much bittering becomes very harsh very fast. As in the BU:GU charts are totally wrong when using that yeast. Slide everything over a notch or two on those charts. Hoppy beers with French Saison are perfect things for 20 minute or < short boil batches IMHO.

Post by **Beer-lord** » Wed May 20, 2015 7:10 am

Thanks mashini, I'm not going to make it uber hoppy, just late additions. I'm aiming for a 1.050 ish beer.

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Dawg LB Steve · Post by **Dawg LB Steve** » Wed May 20, 2015 9:46 am

Word is lemon drop hops, Farmhouse carries, are lemony. Widmer Bros has a Heffe Shandy out that uses them.

Rebel_B · Post by **Rebel_B** » Fri May 22, 2015 3:25 pm

Here's an excellent recipe from a BYO magazine contributor (May-June 2015); I brewed up a batch very similar to this & it was awesome!

Lemon Thyme Saison

(5 gallons/19 L, all-grain)
OG = 1.048 FG = 1.002
IBU = 24 SRM = 6 ABV = 6.1%

INGREDIENTS

7 lbs. (3.2 kg) Pilsner 2-row malt
0.5 lb. (0.23 kg) caramel malt (60 °L)
0.5 lb. (0.23 kg) flaked oats
0.5 lb. (0.23 kg) white wheat malt
6 AAU Sorachi Ace hops (15 min.) (0.5 oz./14 g at 12% alpha acids)
6 AAU Sorachi Ace hops (10 min.) (0.5 oz./14 g at 12% alpha acids)
6 AAU Sorachi Ace hops (5 min.) (0.5 oz./14 g at 12% alpha acids)
0.5 oz. (14 g) Sorachi Ace hops (0 min.)
1 oz. (28 g) Sorachi Ace hops (dry hop)
1.5 tsp fresh ground pepper (5 min.)
1 lb. (0.45 kg) orange blossom honey (5 min.)
3 oz. (85 g) fresh lemon thyme (0 min.)
3 oz. (85 g) fresh lemon thyme (secondary)
Wyeast 3711 (French Saison) or Lallemand Belle Saison
1 cup corn sugar (if priming)

STEP BY STEP

Follow your normal mash in calculations for your equipment. You want your mash to come to a rest at around 150 °F (66 °C). Follow the hop schedule above and add the pepper and honey at 5 minutes left in the boil and the lemon thyme at flame out. You may want to consider putting the lemon thyme in a muslin bag. It is OK to use the entire branch (sprigs) with the small leaves still attached, just make sure to rinse thoroughly. Let steep for 30 to 45 minutes and then cool the wort to 67 °F (19 °C) and pitch the yeast.

Ferment at 67 °F (19 °C). After you reach your final gravity (will be quick as the 3711 works fast!) Rack to secondary and dry hop with the Sorachi Ace and lemon thyme. You may want to consider soaking the lemon thyme in a small amount of vodka to make sure it’s sterile. Dry hop for five days and then bottle or keg.

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Post by **Beer-lord** » Fri May 22, 2015 3:46 pm

Thanks. If I decide to brew my recipe, I'll definitely give this one a shot in the future. I'm not sure I can get Orange blossom honey but I've never looked. Maybe Whole Paycheck, I mean, Whole Foods has some.
I like the lemon thyme idea!

teutonic terror · Post by **teutonic terror** » Fri May 22, 2015 5:42 pm

I brew an IPA I refer to as Hoppy San.

I use 4 oz of Sorachi in the boil and 1.5 oz in the dry hop.

Quite lemony and quite tart.
If you want the recipe, let me know, as far as I'm concerned,
Sorachi is the way to go!
Enjoy!

Rebel_B · Post by **Rebel_B** » Fri May 22, 2015 9:02 pm

Beer-lord wrote:Thanks. If I decide to brew my recipe, I'll definitely give this one a shot in the future. I'm not sure I can get Orange blossom honey but I've never looked. Maybe Whole Paycheck, I mean, Whole Foods has some.
I like the lemon thyme idea!

Yeah, that's why I said I brewed something similar; regular (blackberry) honey in my batch, flaked rye instead of flaked oats, Amarillo hops for many of the additions. I did use the prescribed amounts of lemon thyme & Sorachi Ace hops in the aroma & dry hop additions. Smelled like lemons & had a refreshing lemony flavor.

Post by **Beer-lord** » Wed May 27, 2015 3:04 pm

Since the yeast is driving the saison, what am I likely to notice if I use basic 2 row instead of pilsner? I assume pilsner will be a bit lighter and I do prefer more of the heavier side in lower OG beers.
I'm still working on the recipe, have lots of time and would prefer to use the grain I have in stock. I think I only have 1 or 1 1/2 pounds of pilsner laying around and I prefer to use what I have but if I can get a better lemony flavor with pilsner, I'd definitely go that route.