BeerBorg

Just now listening to podcast #121 on Beersmith, Dr Charlie Bamforth said that heavily dry hopped beers can lead to too much Manganese which can lead to much quicker oxidation of a beer. He gets into chemical changes that happen throughout the brewing process.

What about big hopstands in lue of dry hopping (which is what I've been doing lately)

He says that the isomerization utilizes the oils in the heat, the Manganese is somehow extracted from the hops at the lower temps. He gets into a lot of chemistry in this podcast. It gets kind of tough catching it all the first or second time around with his accent and dealing with phone customers and techs in the office.

I started listening to that podcast and quickly got bored. I didn't get to the part where he mentions this so perhaps I should be more patient and listen again.
I must say I've not noticed any oxidation in my heavily dry hopped beers.

Just got to drink them faster, I guess

One of the seminars I attended at the AHA Conference in Philadelphia a couple years back concerned optimum dry hop time. It was conducted by Stan Hieronymus. There was some chemical/sciency stuff that always wooshes over my head (thank God it wasn't on the final!), but the upshot I got from it is that 24 hours is the optimum length of a dry hop, if you want the aroma to last.

I would think that if someone was using a great deal of hops in the dry hopping, this would be especially true, and also as it relates to the OP.

So does anyone feel that 3-4 oz of hops in a 5 gal batch is considered "heavily" hopped? I ask because I'm about to do that in another week with my current batch because I really want (and need to have) a great aroma.

I'm not changing what I do. I find my beer has some decent to above average aroma so I'm gonna keep doing the same as I have.

I just dry hopped 5 gallons with 5 ounces.. Is that heavily hopped? Lol

Stinkfist wrote:I just dry hopped 5 gallons with 5 ounces.. Is that heavily hopped? Lol

Take a look at how much Pliny is to be dryhopped.......this news does not scare me.

FedoraDave wrote:One of the seminars I attended at the AHA Conference in Philadelphia a couple years back concerned optimum dry hop time. It was conducted by Stan Hieronymus. There was some chemical/sciency stuff that always wooshes over my head (thank God it wasn't on the final!), but the upshot I got from it is that 24 hours is the optimum length of a dry hop, if you want the aroma to last.

I would think that if someone was using a great deal of hops in the dry hopping, this would be especially true, and also as it relates to the OP.

I don't have the brains to provide science behind this but I would challenge that citing beers like Pliny, Enjoy BY, etc. that are HEAVILY hopped but don't seem to oxidize at all. I've had older bottles where the hops have faded but did not notice any oxidation at all.

Take my challenge with a grain of salt as I didn't hear the talk nor can I provide the science so I'm basing this on what I've tasted.

RedBEERd wrote:So does anyone feel that 3-4 oz of hops in a 5 gal batch is considered "heavily" hopped? I ask because I'm about to do that in another week with my current batch because I really want (and need to have) a great aroma.

I'd say "appropriately hopped" if it's an IPA or APA that you want great aroma on. I recently used 2 1/2 oz in a 3G batch and yeah, it's nice

Based on that, and my earlier comment I wouldn't hesitate to use that much.

As a side note, what I have seen in some homebrews that have a lot of dry hops is an oily or astringent feel to them. I'm not sure if that is due the AA of hops or just the sheer volume. But, I wouldn't get that from that amount at all.

Kealia wrote:

FedoraDave wrote:One of the seminars I attended at the AHA Conference in Philadelphia a couple years back concerned optimum dry hop time. It was conducted by Stan Hieronymus. There was some chemical/sciency stuff that always wooshes over my head (thank God it wasn't on the final!), but the upshot I got from it is that 24 hours is the optimum length of a dry hop, if you want the aroma to last.

I would think that if someone was using a great deal of hops in the dry hopping, this would be especially true, and also as it relates to the OP.

I don't have the brains to provide science behind this but I would challenge that citing beers like Pliny, Enjoy BY, etc. that are HEAVILY hopped but don't seem to oxidize at all. I've had older bottles where the hops have faded but did not notice any oxidation at all.

Take my challenge with a grain of salt as I didn't hear the talk nor can I provide the science so I'm basing this on what I've tasted.

In the case Stan makes, it's not oxidation, it's the fading of the aroma. He used Enjoy By as an example, IIRC. The only process he talked about was dry hopping, so there was no coverage of the process any of these breweries use.

Some hops have a higher oil content then others. I had a batch of Apollo a few years back that was sick in this regards. I only used 3oz in a 2.5 gallon batch, but it had a yellow lupulin colored oil slick. That did leave it with heavier mouth feel. But it wasn't astringent, it was delicious. The last batch of Apollo I had wasn't as oily. The AA% doesn't directly equate to the oil content. There are a lot of different kinds of oils in hops, which is why they all taste and smell so different.

My impression was that the manganese thing was something they are just starting to investigate, and maybe it's more of an issue for large commercial brewers who worry so much about HSA, DMS and all that other crap that never happens to us with our equipment and techniques. It may mean absolutely nothing unless you are at BMC scale and pumping your wort all over the place (adding back in a bit of oxygen in the process) before you bottle it.

Also, oxidation regardless, takes time. How long does your IPA sit around? I think most of us, not so long.

I take these things with a grain of salt. The second half of his talk implies that a bunch of my beers should have noticeable DMS (high temp lid on hop stands!!!), and that every single Aussie no-chill brewers beer should be DMS soup not beer - and they are not/do not. Maybe I do produce more DMS, but if I do my yeast selection and semi open fermentation is blowing it back off. My process is not BMC process.

This is what 6 ounces of dry hop in 5 gallons looks like...lol After Cold Crashing