BeerBorg

Picked up a smack pack of Wyeast 3725 yeast. Have not made a Saison, well that's about to change.
Not a big wheat fan, so subbing Vienna. BeerSmith is on the other computer so I'll do the best I can (how's that coming Louie?).
Named for the zoo that we call our place with 3 dogs and 4 cats.

Zoo House Saison
Batch size 6.5 gallons
OG 1.049
FG 0.998
IBUs 24
Color 3.7
ABV 6.7%

9.6 lbs Pilsner Malt
1 lb Wheat Malt
1 lb Munich Malt
0.8 lbs Corn sugar

1.25oz Tettnang at 60 minutes
1oz Tettnang at 20 minutes
0.75oz Tettnang at 5 minutes


Mash at 148 for 75-90 minutes
Boil for 90 minutes

Pitch rehydrated Belle Saison yeast at 68* and allow to free rise for the first day or two and then bring up a few degrees each day to 85-90*
Bottle and wait till next spring and enjoy. And maybe send out.
Any and all input is welcome.

I've never used that yeast, now I will have to go look for it (edit, I'm itching to brew another Bier de Garde which is what I'd do with it, I'm swimming in Saisons at the moment). It's hard to get Wyeast here locally, and this is bad time of year for me to order it online.

From the description it sounds like it should make a decent if subtle saison when mashed low and with the sugar added. One thing to consider is that many saison yeasts will attenuate 95% +, even without sugar... even with .8# of sugar, yours may turn out a touch sweeter then some. Not saying that's bad, but if you wanted a bone dry saison you could bump up the sugar a good bit.

I like the grain bill for a Saison, but IIWM I think I would:

Use that grain bill but pick up a packet of French Saison yeast and maybe go with a different hop schedule using Tettenang and something Slovenian like Celia and or maybe Striselspalt.

AND:

I would build a similar grain bill with maybe a small amount of Special B or Extra Special and use the EKG's and the Biere de Garde yeast with that.

Why? 'Cause I agree with mashani that the yeast you have may not produce the 'signature' Saison results... I would be good though, for sure, just not as dry and tart as one might expect for a Saison.

However, I do think regrouping on the Grain bill with the yeast you have would make a great cool weather sipper, particularly of you if you size it up a bit and shoot for maybe a 1.065-1.070 OG.

Result: Two Great Beers!

Just sayin... YMMV.

I like BigPapaG's ideas, but I will say that I have made an all EKG saison before and it was tasty. But spicer/earthier hops are great in saisons too. And Striselspalt is actually really good in Bier de Gardes too.

Thank You for the input. Have been doing some more reading on the style for the yeast. Changed the above recipe to Saaz hops and will pick up a Saison yeast to do it. Please look over this for the BdG and let me know what you think. Is half a pound Special B a small enough amount? It is 3% of the grain bill.

Zoo House Biere De Garde

Batch size 6.5 gallons
OG 1.079
FG 1.005
IBUs 25
Color 19
ABV 9%

13 lbs Pilsner malt
2 lbs Vienna malt
2 lb Munich malt
4oz Special B
1 lb Corn sugar
1 lb D-90 dark candi syrup


1.5oz EKG 60 minutes
.75oz EKG 20 minutes
.75oz EKG 5 minutes

Depends on how much dark fruit you want, but I think that amount will be fine and not overpower anything.

I would probably personally just use a bag of D-90L or D-180L or a mixture instead of the special b and corn sugar. I think the candi syrup gives a smoother dark fruit profile. I've pretty much stopped using Special B and using 180L in it's place, as I just like it better to my tastes.

mashani wrote:Depends on how much dark fruit you want, but I think that amount will be fine and not overpower anything.

I would probably personally just use a bag of D-90L or D-180L or a mixture instead of the special b and corn sugar. I think the candi syrup gives a smoother dark fruit profile. I've pretty much stopped using Special B and using 180L in it's place, as I just like it better to my tastes.

Good points... I should have mentiond that, because I love them too!

I still use either / or and sometimes both!

I do have a bag of D-90 that is looking quite lonely. Now next question, add it in the boil or after it has been fermenting for 4-5 days.
Off to BeerSmith now to make some changes.

Ok, I'm back. Changed out the Special B for the D-90. Going to leave the sugar in there to try and dry this according to style. Changed the above recipe to update.
Bumps the OG to 1.069 and FG to 1.005. Still have the question on when to add the D-90.

I'ld feed it in two feedings, half near the end of active primary (day 3 or 4) and the other half a few days after that.

Don't forget to measure SG before and after to guage the total increase in OG.

BigPapaG wrote:I'ld feed it in two feedings, half near the end of active primary (day 3 or 4) and the other half a few days after that.

Thank You

BigPapaG wrote:Don't forget to measure SG before and after to guage the total increase in OG.

Could you please elaborate on this. Because I keep reading this and it makes my head hurt.
Take a reading before adding yeast....check
Take a reading before and after adding the sugar feedings?
Take a reading at the end of fermentation.....check.

Sure man, no prob... It's harder to explain than it is to do! LOL!

Ok, so lets say you do up a recipe in your favorite beer software and it includes the sugar feedings and comes in at 1.060.

But you make the recipe and don't add the sugar prior to pitching the yeast, and you take the OG reading and it's something lower than the sw predicts... Let's say it's 1.050.

So you throw some badass yeast at it and it starts fermenting, and maybe it's killing it, maybe it's not, but you would normally know when you think it's done and take the FG. In this way, you can calculate the overall apparent attenuation right?

Yup, except you gotta throw this sugar at it a couple of time during the fermentation, and it's gonna feed the yeast, and they are gonna eat it, and multiply, and eat some more... What is the real ABV? How much did it really attenuate? Who knows?

So to KNOW, you do this:

- Make recipe with sugar in software, record projected OG (again, let's say 1.060)
- Remove sugar from software, record new, lower OG (here we'll use 1.050)
- Make the beer without the sugar, measure OG, pitch yeast (let's say 1.048, pretty close)
- After 3-4 days, measure again (let's say now it's 1.028)
- Add first feeding and measure again (let's say it went up 5 points to 1.033)
==> ok, cool, that extra five points needs to be tacked onto the 1.048 you measured when you made the wort, making it 1.048+0.005=1.053

- Wait a few more days, then measure again... Now let's say it reads 1.025 (it loved the sugar and dropped seven points for example)
- Add the next feeding and measure again... Let's say it jumps to 1.030. Up 5 points again...

==> ok cool, so we had 1.048+0.005=1.053, and now we are again adding 5 points of gravity, so 1.053+0.005=1.058!

You could keep doing this if you have a third feeding, but in our example, you only have two feedings.

Ok, so the latest reading added the last 5 points to your total, making it 1.058, pretty darn close to your projected value of 1.060 but clearly more exact and based on actual readings, so this is good.

- Let it finish fermenting, and take your FG, let's say it stabilizes at 1.010

Since you started at a 'real' value of 1.058 (1.048+0.005+0.005=1.058), and ended at 1.010, you achieved 80% apparent attenuation and landed at 6.4% ABV.

SEE WHAT I MEAN, HARDER TO EXPLAIN THAN TO DO...

Anyway, each feeding adds gravity, you measure before and after to figure out how much gravity, then add that to your real original OG...

I wish I could explain it in simpler terms the BigPapa did but I can't. I do the same as he describes when I do feedings. And yes, I'd feed it as well unless it's a low OG beer to begin with.

EDIT: the only thing simpler would be if you really don't care if you are exact in knowing your final ABV and a "close guess" is good enough... Then you can simply figure your recipe. Note calculated OG. Remove sugar. Note how much your OG went down. Write this down. Brew. Measure you actual OG. Now consider your REAL OG to be that + the number you wrote down once all is said and done. Figure your ABV based on that number and the FG you end up with.

Love both you guys. Thank You for taking the time to explain BigPapaG, now it makes sense.

Dave, I have your address, so a bottle will come your way when I get around to it and it's ready.
BPG if you would be so kind as to PM your address, there will be one with your name on it as well.

Just updated the first recipe. Brewed it on Monday and have kept more temperature notes on this one than any other beer I've brewed. The reptile heat tape and controller have been working GREAT and the thermowell has given my actual wort temperature.
I have the bucket sitting in a cooler, covered with towels. I allowed it to free rise, using the controller just to keep it from dropping. Started using the tape on Thursday to apply heat. Working my way up to...heck don't know yet, but probably around 85-87* where I'll keep it for the next 2 weeks. Then it's on to the Biere De Garde.
Monday-68*
Tuesday-71*
Wednesday-74*
Thursday-77*
Friday-78*
Today, Saturday-80*

Can't wait to see what kind of flavors this brings out in the yeast.

Just checked the FG on this. It's sitting at 0.998, so the heat a Belle Saison really dried this out. Taste is tart and amazing. Think I might bottle it tomorrow as I don't think it's going any lower.

A little help with my math on this please. Going to batch prime for 3 volumes Co2, temperature 85* at 6 gallons. I come up with 199 grams of cane sugar. Seems right unless someone sees something I'm missing. Sorry the picture wasn't better.