NEIPA attempt

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby Kealia » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:27 pm

This batch is odd. The beer in the keg has cleared a LOT, much like that bottle I bet. I would have thought the wheat and oats would have kept it hazy but not so much now. The aroma really faded, too.
The first few pints were hef-hazy and the aroma was like a mai tai. Now, it's like an IPA that isn't totally clear but I never would have guessed it was the NE style but the pint I had last night.
I'm wondering if the yeast flocc'd and pulled a lot of the hop presence down with it.
I'm nesting the bottom of this first keg and may try giving it a bit of a shake or swirl to rouse some stuff up and see what happens.

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby Inkleg » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:53 pm

Have been following a thread on HBT. Here is my next NEIPA attempt. Be careful what you say about me using Citra in a recipe. :p
(For those not in the know. For some ugly reason I can sometimes pick up green onion from Citra. :( ) I'm hoping that since all of these are late additions that that won't happen. If it does I'll just suffer through it or give it away.

Recipe: Cloudy with a Chance of Hops Citra
Brewer: Naked Cat Brewery
Asst Brewer: Those Damn Cats
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 9.06 gal
Post Boil Volume: 7.81 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 5.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 75.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 80.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9.00 gal Naked Cat IPA Water Water 1 -
7.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
5.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
3.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 39.2 %
6 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 6 39.2 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 7 6.5 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 8 3.3 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9 3.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 10 3.3 %
5.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 11 2.0 %
4.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 12 1.6 %
4.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 13 1.6 %
0.75 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 14 28.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 16 15.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 18 17.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 20 13.9 IBUs
1.0 pkg London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) [124. Yeast 21 -
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 23 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 24 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic [11.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 25 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 26 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 27 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 5.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 40.74 qt of water at 158.1 F 152.1 F 75 min

Notes:
------
Flame out 1oz each Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic.

Chill to 160, add 1oz Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic and let steep 30 minutes.

Dry hop #1 around day 4 in primary with a few gravity points left.
1.5oz Citra
1 oz Mosaic
0.5 oz Galaxy

Around day 10 transfer to CO2 purged dry hopping keg.
1.5 oz Citra
1 oz Mosaic
0.5 oz Galaxy

Cold crash day 12 and transfer to serving keg day 14.

Water Profile
Ca = 100
Mg = 5
Na = 13
Sulfate = 147
Chloride = 80
Bicarbonate = 16
Last edited by Inkleg on Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby mashani » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:02 pm

My first batch (Mosiac + Citra) is most certainly Brett infected. It has big ugly hairy eyeballs floating on top taunting me from inside the fermenter.

I should have figured this would happen in my house with all the opening of the fermenter to dry hop along with using a yeast that doesn't ferment out maltotriose, which my brett will happily eat.

So hurray, I guess. More pineapple in my pints?

EDIT: BTW, I've never had a brett infection this early in the year, but it's gotten quite warm here a few times early this year, and I don't normally take the lid off my fermenter to dry hop 3 times.

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby BlackDuck » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:01 am

Wow Jeff, that's alot of hops in that recipe. Looks good.
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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby Kealia » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:54 pm

Inkleg wrote:Be careful what you say about me using Citra in a recipe. :p


Mmmmm, Citra......
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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby mashani » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:19 pm

I like the honey malt addition in that recipe. I think it will bring out the fruit in the hops (that is my own experience).

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby ScrewyBrewer » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:40 pm

I know I am late to the party here but, a friend of mine is really excited about Tired Hands Brewery in Pennsylvania, and their NEIPA selections. Although I have no immediate plans to brew this style at the moment, one of their recipes caught my eye. Besides using apple puree, wheat and oats, they also fermented their beer using a Kolsch yeast. I know my Kolsch beers take a long time to clear because the WLP yeast used is a pretty low flocculant one. Just thinking out loud, but maybe pitching a low flocculant yeast will help keep a NEIPA cloudy too.
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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby Beer-lord » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:53 pm

I'm almost done with my first attempt at this and can say that while the aroma is still very enjoyable, the hops are starting to meld together and it's starting to go downward. This was expected and it's still drinkable but just not nearly as enjoyable.
On the other side, (and not related in any way but I'm posting it anyway) :) my black IPA is at it's best. A friend from California couldn't get enough of it this weekend and he's a huge BIPA fan. But, I did change the recipe up and at first, while good, it was not balanced. Unlike the NEIPA, it just keeps getting better.
Moral of the story: Paul should brew twice as much BIPA as NEIPA!
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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby mashani » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:02 am

I bottled my first batch that was Mosiac + Citra. It got infected with my house Brett C sometime along the line (dry hopping 3x, my guess the first time considering how much it ate already). That stuff went right to work on the sugars that the Lallemand London ESB left behind. This was 1.067 to start with, and even though I used some sugar I was expecting it to end up around 1.022 or even higher because of the fermentation characteristics of London ESB (62-70% attenuation, does not eat maltotriose) since I used some extract, but nope, the Brett took care of what it didn't want to eat. The London ESB was done fermenting what it wanted to by day 5. Even though I started it at 1.067 I wasn't trying to brew a strong beer, I didn't think it was going to ferment out this much. I was looking at the extra residual sweetness as a way to bring out the "juice". It's why I didn't add any crystal malts at all.

I changed my dry hop additions to day 2, day 4, day 7 for my second batch (in progress) because of how fast London ESB ferments. I am going to assume that I got the "biotransformation" desired here even though my 2nd dry hop was probably too late due to the Brett though.

I carbed it lightly like a bitter/mild since based on my experience with the timing/amount of attenuation here, I think the Brett is going to take 2 more points off of this in the bottle over the next 4-6 weeks.

It tastes like pineapple. Lots and lots and lots of pineapple. Has some berry and other tropical stuff too but it's buried under pineapple. My brett really ate a lot of this. Maybe the other stuff will come out more with some age.

I have no idea what it smells like as I have a nasty cold, but my kid wanted to know where the pineapple was, so I think it smells like pineapple too.

The hydro sample would embarrass me unless I was brewing a WIT normally, but I am assuming it should look like this for one of these.

I almost used Pilsner extract for my extract to keep it light, but I'm glad I didn't.

IMG_2520.JPG
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ScrewyBrewer wrote:I know my Kolsch beers take a long time to clear because the WLP yeast used is a pretty low flocculant one. Just thinking out loud, but maybe pitching a low flocculant yeast will help keep a NEIPA cloudy too.


FWIW, the Lallemand London ESB I used is listed as Low-Medium floc, my experience so far is that it's a lot like Kolsch yeast in this regards. It stays powdery in suspension, it doesn't form a hard packed trub like S-04 or Nottingham would, in fact it hardly makes any trub at all compared to those yeasts (half as much).

This batch had a lot of trub but it was mostly hops.

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby mashani » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:33 pm

So... I bottled V2 (Mosiac + Equinox). Also brett infected. Hurray! I was not intending on a nearly 7.5%/85% attenuated beer, but I guess that's what happens in my house when I use a yeast that does not ferment out all the sugars on its own and open my fermenter a bunch of times in my basement, so my brett c gets in and gets to grow up with daughter cells fully adapted to the wort and with plenty of goodies to eat.

This should have in theory finished more between 1.021 to 1.018 or there about.

It tastes and smells great though, it's tons of tropical fruit and berries, and of then pineapple piled on from the Brett C.

I dunno, is a Brett NE IPA a new style? If so, I claim dibs.

Looks ugly, but that's how these things roll...

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby Kealia » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:00 am

mashani wrote:I dunno, is a Brett NE IPA a new style? If so, I claim dibs.

Looks ugly, but that's how these things roll...



Duly noted on the dibs. Yeah, it's a bit hard to get excited over such a cloudy beer after spending so much time and energy over the years getting clear beer. It's a weird feeling.

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby Kealia » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:18 pm

I drank Inkleg's version of this last night and it was really good, too. Cloudy, silky, good aroma and solid flavor. I think those of us that have exchanged bottles have done a pretty good at our first crack at this style.

Now that mine has been in the keg for a while now, it's clearing pretty good. Not crystal clear, but not super hazy/cloudy like when it was only 2 weeks in the keg either. The hop aroma on mine has faded faster than my typical IPAs have and I'm wondering if it has to do with the early late-hopping.
I can't help but think one of two things happens with these:
1) The biotransformation causes a change that allows the hop elements to fade faster
2) The hop oils bind themselves to the yeast and when the yeast finally flocculates, a lot of the hop aroma goes with it

When fresh, this was the brightest and juicy IPA IO've ever made. Now, it tastes not like a faded version of that same beer, but a totally different, less hop-forward beer. Not bad, but nowhere near what it was.

I'll be curious to see if other's experiences are the same over time.

For maximum impact of this beer, I think it really needs t obe enjoyed within 2 weeks of being carbed. I'm sorry the ones I sent out didn't taste like the ones from the keg that were fresh - the difference is really amazing.

I do like the peach esters/flavors I got from my version which I didn't pick up in Inkleg's - but that could also be because we used different hops as well as yeast.

In any case - these are good.

I have a second 2.5G keg of mine that I haven't tapped yet. It will be interesting to see how it's help up. I may have to keg-hop it to give it more punch but I'll report back when I get that one tapped.

All good learning and very interesting. And hey, we get to drink beer while learning!

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby mashani » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:32 pm

Do you think I should just try one at two weeks then, even though I bottle carbed mine? 2 weeks for my first batch would be next Tuesday I think. Usually I pop the first one closer to 3 weeks as I am an acetaldehyde super taster... but it might be buried under all the hops here and/or some apple might not be that annoying mixed with all the other fruit.

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby Kealia » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:34 pm

With your pitch rates and brewing knowledge in general I have no doubt you brew clean beers. I would try one at two weeks for sure.

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Re: NEIPA attempt

Postby mashani » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:51 pm

Kealia wrote:With your pitch rates and brewing knowledge in general I have no doubt you brew clean beers. I would try one at two weeks for sure.
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Well yeah all my beers since I started pitching a lot more are acetaldehyde free and actually quite tasty when they come out of the fermenter, I'm just more concerned about the priming sugar/bottle fermentation, I'm not so sure my pitch rates help there. But maybe they do. I guess it's time to find out. If I kegged it would be easy, I'd be drinking beers at 1 week and/or as soon as carbed.

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