Advice needed

[FedoraDave]

My supervisor at the deli, Chris, has been asking questions about home brewing ever since he found out that it's what I do. I originally thought he was just interested in it academically, but recently, it seems he's putting out feelers before taking the plunge himself. We usually work the opening shift together on Wednesdays, and I mentioned last week that I was going to be brewing a sour beer the next day. He asked a couple of questions about the process, and that was pretty much it.

Then, on Saturday, he asked me how the sour beer had turned out. Come to realize he thought the brewing process was a one-day thing. It kind of blew his mind that fermentation takes 7-10 days (at least), and the carbonating and conditioning takes another four weeks total.

I was going to mess with his mind a little (and sort of brag, I'll admit) by letting him know that I'm brewing an Oktoberfest this week, which means a yeast starter, strict temperature control, a D-rest, and a good three or four months of cold storage before I tap it. I kind of wanted to have some fun with him, but he told me that he was very interested in finding a hobby, so I don't want to scare him by making it seem too involved and ambitious. But I also want him to understand that it's not like cooking or gardening or some other hobbies where there's a quick pay-off.

Folks, let's face it, not only does this hobby take a lot of waiting time, but even the active part is kind of boring and/or repetitive. Timing boiling wort for the hop additions? Fun! Waiting for fermentation to complete? Wheee! And let's not even talk about bottling day. It takes a certain mindset to do this, and while the initial cost doesn't need to be high, there is some initial cost involved in equipment that you can't easily repurpose.

So here's my dilemma. I want to encourage him if he's genuinely interested in trying this for himself. I would suggest either an extract kit or just buying extract and hops and yeast on his own for a simple batch, just to prove to himself that he can do it. That's the first hurdle. But I also want him to understand that by doing so, he's just dipping his toe in the ocean. There's a whole lot more to this if he really wants to explore it.

So I turn to you. How best to do this? I suppose my first step should be to ask questions and listen more than I talk about what I'm doing. I want to be honest and realistic with him because I'd rather he decide brewing is not for him right from the get-go, than have him make the initial effort and get turned off by it after putting some of his time and money into it.

[Beer-lord]

Some people want to jump right into things but I think it's best to start off slowly, buying only the needed equipment for simple batches first. Maybe you can help him brew at his house the first time or two, describing how things work together and the options we have as we get more experience.
If he's surprised how long it takes, he definitely needs to learn why things take the time they do.
Sounds like you could have an intern on your hands too. He could come to your place and watch you brew AG later.

[John Sand]

I think a kit is a very good way to start. The ingredients and instructions are all there. You might first invite him over for an extract+grains brew day. I have done this with two friends, though neither planned to start brewing. I also think that the kit is an inexpensive way to start, as you need only the ingredients, a fermenter, and a pot he may already have.

[BlackDuck]

I think the kit is the way go also. Hell, didn't we all start with; and some still use a Mr Beer or Brew Demon kit?

[TonyKZ1]

^^ Yes as others have posted. A 1 or 2G gallon extract kit or even a 1G All grain kit would be the easiest introduction to the hobby. I still use my Mr. Beer & BrewDemon recipes & equipment occasionally.

[RickBeer]

This hobby has a huge dropout rate. People don't understand the time involved (brewing and waiting), they don't follow directions and get crappy results, they aren't organized enough, ...

I would recommend a Mr. Beer kit for a new brewer AFTER they understand that it's basically two months. After 1/2 dozen batches, move to steeps and a dry hop here and there. Mr. Beer has a bunch of these recipes now. Then, consider steeped grains, LME/DME, and hops.

Also, keep in mind Dave that on a scale of "focusing on the details" you are a ten as compared to most people. I am too. You can be a 5 or 6 and get great results though. Don't scare him off.

[FedoraDave]

Good responses. Thanks, everyone. I do think a kit might make the best introduction, at least for the basics.

As far as having a brew day with him, we both work shift work, so we almost never have the same time off, so that probably wouldn't work out. And, frankly, I'd feel awkward during the mash and all that down time. "And now we sit and watch Gilligan's Island episodes until the timer goes off...."

But I think I still have a Mr. Beer LBK that I could totally lend him (or let him have; I'm not using it).

Anyway, I'll talk more with him on Wednesday morning, just to feel him out. It's a little tough to have a discussion, though, because it's a situation where we both have separate duties to keep us busy even when we don't have customers to help.

[alb]

Just to throw a little different perspective in here...

I agree that a kit is the way to go, and lending him your LBK is a generous offer. But having a brew day together... I wouldn't have wanted that to start with. I wanted to do my Mr. Beer all by myself. Read my directions 3-4x at each step, cuss a wee bit, and not worry about having another person there to witness it or tell me what to do. That being said, I would like to have observed a brew day before I went AG. YouTube was a help.

[FedoraDave]

I feel the same way, alb.

Anyway, I spoke with him briefly at work today, and he said he was seriously looking for a creative hobby along the lines of cooking or brewing. He just doesn't know much about brewing, so I guess he's been picking my brain with all the questions. We're both opening up on Wednesday, and I'm going to the LHBS tomorrow, as it turns out. I'll talk to them about what's in the kits they sell and how much additional monetary outlay is involved, in terms of things like bottles and whatnot. I can share this information when the questions arise.

[The_Professor]

My story is that is that you don't say, "I'm having a party this weekend so I'm gonna brew a beer on Friday". Doesn't work that way.

[LouieMacGoo]

Direct him to the Beerborg here and we will take good care of him!

I think an extract kit is a good way to go. Keep it simple and basic but make sure he knows that beer can be as simple or complex as you want to make it. I also think that brewing with him is the best way to start. I remember when I started with Mr. Beer I was combing the internet looking for information, advice and direction and if I would have had someone I knew personally that brewed I would have been very happy if they had offered to show me how they brew and be a mentor to me. Being in my homebrew club I have been mentored and
I have mentored others and it has really worked out well. Also isn't that what we do here on the Borg is help and mentor people to become brewer and better brewers?

[Dawg LB Steve]

Direct him to the Beerborg here and we will take good care of him!

I think an extract kit is a good way to go. Keep it simple and basic but make sure he knows that beer can be as simple or complex as you want to make it. I also think that brewing with him is the best way to start. I remember when I started with Mr. Beer I was combing the internet looking for information, advice and direction and if I would have had someone I knew personally that brewed I would have been very happy if they had offered to show me how they brew and be a mentor to me. Being in my homebrew club I have been mentored and
I have mentored others and it has really worked out well. Also isn't that what we do here on the Borg is help and mentor people to become brewer and better brewers?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Leigh summed it up nicely^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[FedoraDave]

I would definitely direct him to The Borg, since it's one of the best places to go for good advice on brewing. I doubt I'd be able to brew with him, since, as I mentioned, our shifts and times off don't really coincide. I also think he lives about a 45-minute drive away.

I was at the LHBS this morning, and they have Brewer's Best 1-gallon kits in the $15-$20 price range. And they have just about everything needed except a pot, a carboy, and bottles. I would imagine an adequate pot would already be in his possession, I have plenty of bottles to give him that I should get rid of anyway and certainly wouldn't miss, so the only real difficulty is the fermenting vessel and an airlock. I suppose I could give him one of my old LBKs; it would be easier to bottle out of that than from any kind of bucket.

I'll talk to him tomorrow and see what he thinks. Twenty bucks or so isn't so much to ask for an initial experiment.

[berryman]

I agree with all said above.... A MB or BD kit is the way to start out, just say it's the easy way to make beer, but can be a lot better with more, get the basics down then do a grain steep and will be not bad beer and if he whats and likes it can move on to other things. Yes make it know it takes some time to make beer. Steer him here and there is a lot of help, if what he wants..........

[RickBeer]

Dave, I think you are over shooting with him. You're having him commit a bunch of dollars that he doesn't have to, and a process (LME/DME, steeped grains, hops) that is too advanced if you want him to succeed.

Give him your LBK, point him towards the Mr. Beer site, and suggest he start with some of the Craft Series (which are much better than the others). After a few of those, he can look at some recipes including dry hopping. Then some of the partial mash recipes (i.e. steeped grains). THEN, move to kits like what you found, although those are cost prohibitive at $20 for 1 gallon.

There is zero reason for a cash outlay beyond ingredients at this point. Let him have some wins.