Ph Meter newbie

[Banjo-guy]

I just bought a ph meter. I’ve been avoiding getting one because they seem to require a lot of care. I know the need to be calibrated before each use and that the calibration solutions have a pretty short shelf life.
1. The probe must be stored in solution or it’s life will be drastically shortened. I didn’t buy storage solution but I’ve read that the PH 4 solution will work for storage. Is that correct?

2. I’ve read not too touch the probe or wipe it clean. Use distilled water to clean it.

3. Take the readings at room temperature.

Any ph meter tips would be appreciated.
I bought the one reviewed on Brülosophy. It’s from a ThermoWorks. It’s was about 75.00.

[RickBeer]

I'd recommend reviewing the instructions and care information that ThermoWorks provides. The care and maintenance instructions seem to answer all your questions.

Used a pH meter in a brewery a few times. We rinsed it with tap water, then stored it in solution, but I don't know if it was storage solution or pH4 (care instructions address this).

https://www.thermoworks.com/pdf/care_ma ... trodes.pdf

[MadBrewer]

I have a $30 Hanna meter I have used for years. I check calibration each brew day, but many times it is still locked in and no adjustment is needed. I have never used distilled water to rinse nor have I ever used storage solution. I have always used 7.0 solution for storage. But you are correct, you shouldn't touch the glass bulb and really, if you rinse it well and store it in solution, there is really no "cleaning" to be done.

Personally I think most confusion and problems with a ph meter and brewing come with using it. You HAVE to use a cooled sample from your mash, room temp (77*) actually because that is what your calibration solutions are calibrated at for their represented ph. There is no need for temp correction and although some say they do it, it is not advised to use a ph meter right into a hot mash, nor would the readings be correct because it's at 150* or better. Remember to test everything brewing related at room temp or so. Mash ph should be checked around 10 mins after mash in to give your brewing salts and water chemistry a chance to make it's changes. Also there is confusion on recommended ranges for a cooled mash sample. Anything between 5.2-5.4 is really just fine. For darker beers, up to 5.6 is fine.

Do you have a water report for you brewing water? Do you build or adjust your water? Do you use a water chemistry calculator?

[BlackDuck]

Ok...I've got a question that's been on my mind for a while regarding mash pH. MadBrewer says it above and I've read it elsewhere that you need to wait 10 to 15 minutes after mash in to check the pH. Then you've got to wait some more to let the test sample cool down to room temp. So you're mash has been going for 20 to 25 minutes before you can get an accurate reading. Then add on another 5 or 10 minutes to figure out exactly what sort of changes you need to make. So you're in the mash at least 30 minutes before you make the adjustment. Some mash conversions take place in the first 30 minutes. I've done a 30 minute mash and it worked great. Wouldn't it be too late to make any changes to the batch after you go through all this, or do you just take really good notes and make the change the next time you brew that recipe?

[Beer-lord]

I take a small mash sample in a metal cup, put it in the freezer or better yet, grab 2 ice cubes and sit it on the cubes for 2 minutes and I'm able to get a 75 degree reading quickly with my PH meter.
Much of the year I grab 20 lbs of loose ice for $1.75 in an ice chest that I use for chilling the beer down. I sometimes just put the sample, buried in an inch of ice and it chills it down uber fast.

[BlackDuck]

Yea...I know you can chill the sample quickly. It's only a small sample to begin with. But that will only save about 5 minutes. Even with a quick chill of the sample, you're still in 25 minutes or so into the mash. Is it to late for any adjustments to really matter?

[Beer-lord]

I'd rather not do it but I've adjusted as much as 45 minutes into the mash when needed with lactic acid. It makes the change quickly so you can get reading after stirring it around well.

[Kealia]

Great question and I was thinking the same thing. I don't use a ph meter, rather I rely on EZ Water to tell me what I'm doing. I do have some test strips that I've been using for my Berliner Weiss kettle sours to check the ph but that's a whole different story.

[Banjo-guy]

Do you have a water report for you brewing water? Do you build or adjust your water? Do you use a water chemistry calculator?

I use Bru’n water for my water adjustments and yes I have had a few water reports of my water.

This is a basic question but what adjustment are usually made? Do I use lactic acid to acidify the mash?
If I’m shooting for a mash ph of 5.3 and I get a reading of 5.9 how do I bring it down?
What if I need to raise the ph from say, 4.9 to 5.3?
What do I need add to either lower or raise the mash ph?

I haven’t explored Bru’n water to see if it helps to calculate how much and which chemicals to add.

Is it necessary to check the ph later in the brewing process?

[Beer-lord]

I'm no water expert but I use water salts to try so that my water is best for the type of beer I am making. Some of the water calculators have different profiles of water in areas of the world that make certain beers and you can use these profiles if you are trying to brew a beer to match them. The water salts WILL affect ph. Once I match or come close to the profile I want for the type of beer I'm making, if my ph is still high, I then add lactic acid to help lower it.
But I use RO water so keep that in mind.
I stop checking my ph mid mash and never check again but that's just me.

[Kealia]

I use Calcium Chloride, Epsom Salt and Gypsum to set the water profile and lactic acid to drop the ph when needed.

[Banjo-guy]

I’ve got good handle on adjusting the mash water beforehand. I’m just sure how do it in the middle of the mash. Maybe the Bru’n water spread sheet will shed some light.

[mashani]

Some mash conversions take place in the first 30 minutes. I've done a 30 minute mash and it worked great. Wouldn't it be too late to make any changes to the batch after you go through all this, or do you just take really good notes and make the change the next time you brew that recipe?

It should not be "too late" as long as you are willing to wait. As in if it was totally messed up and out of range, it should not have murdered your enzymes, they just didn't work very well. If you adjust the PH they should then start to be more happy and start to work well, but that first 30 minutes might not have been very worthwhile, so extend your mash a bit perhaps.

There is no harm in an extra long mash, except for time spent.

I’ve got good handle on adjusting the mash water beforehand. I’m just sure how do it in the middle of the mash. Maybe the Bru’n water spread sheet will shed some light.

I'm not sure if this is what you are asking, but just add lactic acid or phosphoric acid in the amount needed to get the PH where you want it, don't mess with water salts at that point.

[Banjo-guy]

I’ve got good handle on adjusting the mash water beforehand. I’m just sure how do it in the middle of the mash. Maybe the Bru’n water spread sheet will shed some light.

I'm not sure if this is what you are asking, but just add lactic acid or phosphoric acid in the amount needed to get the PH where you want it, don't mess with water salts at that point.

I have lactic acid but not phosphoric acid and I don’t really know how much lactic to add to make a measurable ph change. I don’t want over do it. I’m sure after I do it once it will be clear but it would nice not to screw up by adding too much my first time.

So the process after calibrating the meter is:
1. Stir the mash well
2. Pull a sample and chill it to room temperature
3. Add lactic or phosphoric acid to bring the ph down. (I guess you rarely have to raise the ph )
4. Repeat until you hit the ph you are looking for
5. Keep track of what you did so that you can adjust beforehand if brewing the same grain bill.

Is there any point in checking the ph during boil or pre and post fermentation?

[RickBeer]

I’ve got good handle on adjusting the mash water beforehand. I’m just sure how do it in the middle of the mash. Maybe the Bru’n water spread sheet will shed some light.

I'm not sure if this is what you are asking, but just add lactic acid or phosphoric acid in the amount needed to get the PH where you want it, don't mess with water salts at that point.

I have lactic acid but not phosphoric acid and I don’t really know how much lactic to add to make a measurable ph change. I don’t want over do it. I’m sure after I do it once it will be clear but it would nice not to screw up by adding too much my first time.

So the process after calibrating the meter is:
1. Stir the mash well
2. Pull a sample and chill it to room temperature
3. Add lactic or phosphoric acid to bring the ph down. (I guess you rarely have to raise the ph )
4. Repeat until you hit the ph you are looking for
5. Keep track of what you did so that you can adjust beforehand if brewing the same grain bill.

Is there any point in checking the ph during boil or pre and post fermentation?

Bru'n water does tell you what to add and how much per my understanding. You don't want to be guessing.