BeerBorg

I've decided that my next batch is going to be a Dunkelweizen for a few reasons:
- I'm going through my cyclical burn-out of IPAs
- I want something different that I've never brewed before
- I want to step mash on my Mash & Boil (just because I can)

So I found a few recipes from NB, Brew Your Own, Zymurgry, etc. and am going with this one:
4g Calcium Chloride
3g Epsom Salt
2g Gypsum
1/4lb rice hulls
5lbs White wheat malt
3lbs Munich
2lbs Vienna
1/2lb Special B
1/4lb Chocolate Malt
1oz Tettnang (@ 60)
1 vial WLP300

My plan is to step mash:
122 for 20 minutes
149 for 30 minutes
158 for 30 minutes
mash out at 170 for 10

Boil for 60 with the Tettnang addition and ferment warm and slightly underpitched to promote the banana esters. The recipe calls for this to be "dark and bready" and I do prefer my Hefs to be more banana than clove so we'll see how this goes.

I'm not sure how it will take to go from step to step so it could be a long mash. I'm thinking that I'll dough-in @ 122 and hold that for 20 minutes, as planned. Then I'll set the M&B to 149 and see how long it takes to get there. I'll pull a few gallons from the bottom as it heats to pour back over the top to help promote the temp climb. I'll do some research before Sunday but open to any input/feedback, etc.

I'm thinking that I don't need to hold the subsequent temps for the full time as the mash temp will climb throughout the mash since I'll be using the same strike water (meaning, I'm not adding water to raise the temps, just letting the unit do the work).

I need to read a bit more about the first temps to see exactly what I'm getting out of it and that will determine just how long I do things. But as of today, this is my plan.

FWIW:

I've had good success just starting at around 100, adding my grain, setting it at 1000 watts, and setting it to my intended mash temp and then just ignoring it for ~100 minutes. It will spend around 15 minutes or so in the effective range of the acid/glucan/protein rests before it hits sac. temps. The range of each of them is much wider then the single digit numbers you find on the internet, those are just the "most active" magic numbers, but all the enzymes are doing their thing across a much broader range, just like the sac. occurs across a wide range of temps.

At 100, after grain is mixed in you are at low end acid rest starting point as well as the low end of a glucan rest, so it will break down a gummy mash somewhat in a wheat beer. I have done a high volume wheat/rye beer both that way without using a lot of rice hulls and although draining my mash was a bit slower, it never got "stuck".

If you are looking for cloves in your dunkel, then starting lower at the acid rest is going to help promote them more, it theoretically makes a precursor that helps the yeast make it. My own experience backs this up, the most clove forward wheat beers I've ever made have all had an acid rest.

Based on that I'll be skipping the acid rest then. What I don't want is a clove bomb.

Best way to avoid extra cloves is just to single infusion mash and ferment at appropriate temperatures (with most yeasts, warmer), but if you want to step mash then start at 126+ and no extra cloveification should happen. You can do a protein rest at 126, it will work fine. You won't get a glucan rest effect, so keep the rice hulls.

That sounds like a plan. I did some more reading last night and lo and behold it aligns with your input
I'm adjusting to 126 for 20 minutes, rather than 122 to 'avoid' the acid rest and creating the clove pre-cursors.

Since I've only ever brewed 1 Hef and it was YEARS ago.....when the advice is to ferment warmer we're talking about the warmer side of the appropriate range of the specific yeast strain, not higher than the stated range, correct?

Yes, most wheat beer and Belgian yeasts that make clove/banana tend more towards clovey/earthy phenolic flavors at the lower end of their temperature range, and more estery/banana flavors more towards the higher end, and some balance of the two in the middle.

I say most, this isn't true of all, there are some yeasts that that are more estery cooler and more phenolic warmer. But I don't know of a wheat beer specific yeast that acts that way.

If you don't want "any of that @$!T" then an American Wheat strain is in order, or a very large pitch of a European wheat strain will lessen the banana as well.

mashani wrote: If you don't want "any of that @$!T" then an American Wheat strain is in order, or a very large pitch of a European wheat strain will lessen the banana as well.

Wyeast 1010 might get you there and I have used this yeast quite a few times.

I need to update this thread with a pic and tasting notes. I pulled a pint the other night and it wasn't fully carbed yet, but it was delicious.

More details to come...

I've been derelict in updating this thread, but I did grab a picture yesterday while smoking some tri-tip for dinner:



This beer is everything that I wanted it to be: dark and sexy, not icky, bready, banana-y with hints of clove, and very drinkable!

I'm not sure I'd change anything - especially since I got the dual regulator and have this carbed up high, like it should be.
I've been enjoying this for the past 3-4 weeks when hoppy just doesn't sound good.
Definitely a keeper to rebrew at some point.