Competition - what category to enter this in?

[Crazy Climber]

I am entering a regional competition. They've got all the BJCP styles and sub-styles. I am entering a Raspberry Saison (that came out really good, IMO).

Should I enter this as a 16C- Saison, or a 20 - Fruit Beer?

[BlackDuck]

I think it would probably fit best in the fruit beer. A traditional Saison doesn't have Raspberry in it, and that's how the 16C-Saison would be judged. Good Luck!!

[MadBrewer]

Yeah, if it contains fruit...then enter it into the fruit beer category. You can still note the base beer and that is supposed to be detectable in the beer. The fruit is meant to be 2ndary.

Good luck, it sounds good.

[Crazy Climber]

Thanks for the tips.
I normally would've gone for the Fruit category as a no-brainer, but I know Saisons are a little "fruity" by nature, and there are quite a few raspberry saisons out there, so I wasn't really sure what would be appropriate. I was leaning toward the fruit category, but insights from fellow Borg-members make me more comfortable with that choice.

[JimH]

I don't have a lot of experience with competitions, but there is also the hybrid category. But I think the fruit beer sounds like the best fit.

[BigPapaG]

It for sure has to go in 16E, Belgian Specialty.

If you read the comments from the 2008 BJCP Guidlines for Category 20 you will find the following:

"If the base beer is a classic style, the original style should come through in aroma and flavor. Note that fruit-based lambics should be entered in the Fruit Lambic category (17F), while other fruit-based Belgian specialties should be entered in the Belgian Specialty Ale category (16E)."

Since the base style is Belgian (Saison 16C), you would need to enter it in 16E.

Add notes, be descriptive to help the judges properly evaluate it like...

'Belgian Saison with Rasberries and Citra Hops.'

In this way, they are not left to guess what they are tasting that is beyond (or outside) of the base style and you won't risk them identifying something as a flaw when it was intended.

Good luck to you!

[MadBrewer]

I'm not a fan of Belgian beers, I didn't even know of a Belgian Specialty category. That's defenately where to go^...good call man.

I've read suggestions by Jamil and in Gordon Strongs book that finding the appropriate category is the hardest part of competitions. They say it's worth while to submit the same beer to different categories, in this case maybe as a Belgian Specialty and a Fruit beer. Better your odds and getting good feedback and good scores.

[BigPapaG]

I'm not a fan of Belgian beers, I didn't even know of a Belgian Specialty category. That's defenately where to go^...good call man.

I've read suggestions by Jamil and in Gordon Strongs book that finding the appropriate category is the hardest part of competitions. They say it's worth while to submit the same beer to different categories, in this case maybe as a Belgian Specialty and a Fruit beer. Better your odds and getting good feedback and good scores.

I agree, and I have done that... I even had one that I dropped into three categories and it was mediocre in all three 'cause it just didn't quite fit any of them... Go figure...

[Crazy Climber]

THIS thread is an example of why, IMO, the Borg is the best damn forum on the web. The knowledge, combined with the willingness to help here is second to none.

I agree that 16E - Belgian Specialty sounds like the best fit for this beer. I would really like to enter this beer in that category AND the Fruit category, but unfortunately, it was a summer brew and I saved a couple of bottles specifically for this competition. So, I don't have enough bottles to enter it twice.

The prizes are awarded at the category level, so all 16's (Belgian) get lumped together. Based on past entry volume, I'd stand a better chance of winning something in the Fruit category. But feedback is what's important, and I'll probably get more style-appropriate feedback by entering it as a Belgian Specialty.

BTW, the comp is here. I like this comp for reasons lazy and greedy: lazy, because my LHBS is a drop-off location, so I don't have to pack and ship a ton of bottles...and greedy because they only require 2 bottles per entry, rather than 3, so...more of my beer stays with me.

I've got 4 beers entered: Raspberry Saison, Double IPA, German Pils, and Bourbon Oak English IPA (in the wood-aged category). Looking forward to the feedback!

Thanks again for the great advice!

[bucknut]

I agree with the 16E category, I just got my score sheets back on a red rye ipa that I entered into the specialty category and both judges said it lacked enough rye flavor and that it would have done better in the ipa category. So Belgian Specialty sounds right, just make that if you mention fruit in the description it matches up cause they will ding you on it. Good luck.

[Crazy Climber]

One month later, update:

I wound up entering this Raspberry Saison in BOTH the Belgian and Fruit categories, as the competition accepted single-bottle entries, with the understanding that they wouldn't be eligible to move on to the BOS round. I had 3 bottles left, so I was able to enter it in both categories.

Alas, it did not place in either category. 42 total entries in the Belgian category, and 20 entries for Fruit Beer.

None of my other entries placed, either (IPA - 48 entries, Spiced - 24 entries, Smoke/Wood - 17 entries, Pilsner - 11 entries). But, I'm hoping for some useful feedback in the score sheets, when I receive them. I will report back with any items of interest, when I get them.

[bucknut]

One month later, update:

I wound up entering this Raspberry Saison in BOTH the Belgian and Fruit categories, as the competition accepted single-bottle entries, with the understanding that they wouldn't be eligible to move on to the BOS round. I had 3 bottles left, so I was able to enter it in both categories.

Alas, it did not place in either category. 42 total entries in the Belgian category, and 20 entries for Fruit Beer.

None of my other entries placed, either (IPA - 48 entries, Spiced - 24 entries, Smoke/Wood - 17 entries, Pilsner - 11 entries). But, I'm hoping for some useful feedback in the score sheets, when I receive them. I will report back with any items of interest, when I get them.

Placing in a competition is nice, and no matter what the outcome it's the feedback that will help us the most next time. Good luck on your next competition.

[FedoraDave]

+1 to what Bucknut said.

Placing is great, but it's the feedback from the judge's sheets that is the most valuable. You can learn an awful lot from them. And it will give you more confidence in future comps.

[BigPapaG]

One month later, update:

I wound up entering this Raspberry Saison in BOTH the Belgian and Fruit categories, as the competition accepted single-bottle entries, with the understanding that they wouldn't be eligible to move on to the BOS round. I had 3 bottles left, so I was able to enter it in both categories.

Alas, it did not place in either category. 42 total entries in the Belgian category, and 20 entries for Fruit Beer.

None of my other entries placed, either (IPA - 48 entries, Spiced - 24 entries, Smoke/Wood - 17 entries, Pilsner - 11 entries). But, I'm hoping for some useful feedback in the score sheets, when I receive them. I will report back with any items of interest, when I get them.

Placing in a competition is nice, and no matter what the outcome it's the feedback that will help us the most next time. Good luck on your next competition.

+1 and... Just entering makes you a winner!

[swenocha]

Agreed. Take in the critique, but also be mindful that sometimes you don't get expert judges. One of my last submissions had such wild differences in the notes that were directly contradictory that I thought the two drank different beers. But, I still was able to use a lot of it. The competition I didn't like, however, was the one where you received no feedback. I always want the feedback...