Base Malt Variety

[MadBrewer]

Hey, just looking to get some chat going and ask for input and opinions in one spot. For all of my brewing years I have been at the mercy of what my LHBS stocks. My current LHBS has a great selection of most things, especially specialty malts...for hops and yeast...he's got it pretty much covered. As far as base malts, that's where I am looking to branch out a bit. I can't say for 100% certain but I'm pretty sure he stocks Briess 2 Row, 6 Row, Pale Ale Malt. Avangard German Pale Ale Malt, Pilsner, Vienna and Munich. For English, last time I asked it was Munton's Maris Otter. He seems to go back and forth with Briess and Avangard, so it may also be Briess Pilsner, Vienna...etc at different times. I typically ask, but not always.

Anyway, I wanted to sum up my experience while I ask for some of yours with these base malts and some of the others that are out there.

Briess base malts, seem well...very basic. They will get the job done, but haven't been the most exciting. Their 2 Row and Pale Ale malt do not seem that much different, but I haven't done side by side comparisons...just notations through each of their use.

Avangard seems to have a decent German Pale Ale malt, I would chose that over the Briess. More flavor and I have noticed higher yeild from it.

Avangard Pilsner also seems decent, an obvious choice over Briess Pilsner malt.

Avangard Vienna was probably my favorite when used in a few beers, noticeable flavor character, at least when mixed with their Pilsner malt.

Avangard Munich, also seems very decent. I do not usually get much use with full on Munich...typically just an addition to some beers but it seems to do what Munich malt is known to do.

As for Munton's if in fact that is what he stocks for Maris Otter, that seems to be the Briess of English Malts. I know they have a long time history but beers I have made with this Maris Otter do not seem to have as much English character (the bready, biscuit, more malty) Maris Otter is usually know for.

My current LHBS doesn't stock them, but my old LHBS used to use Canada Malting...he mentioned he worked with or for the company somehow. Anyway, I remember beers back then being pretty top notch. I remember the American syle Ales I made with the Canada 2 Row being very flavorful. I recall also using the Canadian Pilsner and others but not enough to comment on the final products. I don't remember him carrying Maris Otter, but he had Canadian Superior Pale Ale malt, which was something inbetween and better than the Pale Ale malts my current LHBS carries.

So that's just some of my experience with those listed...quite limited for all the years I have been brewing. So as more and more base malt variety is coming available, just curious what some of your experiences have with with them and how you guys like what you are using or have used?

At this point as I contemplate purchasing my own mill so I can buy different sacs of base malt at different times I would not hesitate to start with Canada Malting with the results I remember. And pricing is very nice too.

[Beer-lord]

Good stuff! My LHBS is starting to carry less variety in almost everything because he thinks he knows (or he'll tell you) what you need or should be using. He's young and I overlook that and buy online for most of my stuff now. But I'd like to help small businesses but it's on him.
Anyway, last year I started trying a variety of different malts from different (some boutique) places. I got a sack of Viking Pale malt and it was ok but I did notice some lower OG's and have read about some problems others have with that as well. Nothing I couldn't work with.
I love, love, love Mecca Grade malts having tried their 2 row, Munich, Vienne and Rye. I've gotten 2 sacks but it's uber expensive and I started mixing it with Great Western and Rahr malts...I'm not a Briess fan. Then I tried to get malt from smaller, regional places and contacted a few. Most never replied back and the few who did only wanted larger orders or wholesale orders. Proximity Malt has an online store for most of their grains but their shipping was high. I did get a sack to try and it's almost as good as Mecca Grade to me. Then I found out that Label Peelers sold Proximity and their shipping was about half the price. Got a sack for $34 plus shipping and it's about the same cost as buying Great Western from my LHBS. So, that's what I hope to be using mostly for my 2 row.
Definitely get a mill. It'll last for many years and I know I've saved a few hundred dollars over the years buying in bulk and milling my own. Only problem is space but I suggest you do invest in air tight containers such as Vittles Vault.

[MadBrewer]

I have heard you mention Mecca Grade Malt quite a bit, as well as the Viking and thanks for sharing. I will be looking into a mill before buying bulk, that will probably be another thread of this sort to help me settle on what to buy. Both are part of my New Years "Brews-olution" lol. Every year I look back at my brewing and then then look forward thinking of things to improve on, change, incorporate into my process...etc. So these two things go hand in hand, going to need a mill when buying in bulk. But my plan is not to keep much on hand at all. Instead I would just pick a sack of something, work my way through it with the next several batches and then try something else...focusing on different 2 Row, Pale Ale Malt, Maris Otter, etc. There would be no need for me to pick up full sacks of Munich, Vienna or even Pilsner. My LHBS is actually really great, love the place and the owner and he shares beer while I'm there all the time. He brews in the back of his shop and keeps stuff on tap. So all my specialty grains, hops and yeast I would still go to him. I'm curious what he can get me a sack of malt for anyway, going to have to talk to him.

Storage would be the issue. All my brew stuff in organized and tucked away in cabinets in my garage. It's finished, insulated and at time even heated but still not a place to store grain. I could find a spot in the laundry room out of the way but that's about it, besides crawl space which is cool, dark and dry and easy to access since I have a Tri-level home. I'll look into the Vittles Vault!

[berryman]

MB, not directly answer to your malt question, but am surprised you don't mill your own grains. I've had a grain mill since shortly after started brewing. If I buy from my LHBS they will mill for free, but I always liked doing it myself just before am ready to brew and it always comes out the same. I can't get BestMalz Redx around here and I like it so I bought a sack and mill some when I want to use it.

[mashani]

I've had good luck with Viking malt.

What they call Pale malt it is more like a British Pale malt. It is kilned a bit more, so it gives a slightly darker color, so it is not really a direct replacement for American 2-row if expecting the same results. I get good yields with it, but perhaps people need to modify their crush slightly and/or not try to short cut their mash times when using to get the best results if they are just crushing it the same gap they are using for their normal 2-row.

The Viking extra pale malt is probably a better choice if someone is trying to replace American 2-row and achieve more similar results.

The Pilsner is a bit less modified but all good European pilsner malts tend to fall into that category. But it tastes nice and makes very good beer if you treat it right. Every Nordic Farmhouse brewery I've seen pictures of has sacks of the Viking Pilsner in their building.

I've had good luck with their Light and Dark Munich malts.

I have a bunch of Viking Vienna malt, so I'm going to make a Vienna Lager soon. We will see how it comes out, but I expect that I will like it.

As far as the Maris Otter, the best Maris Otter is the floor malted stuff which has more character then others. Same goes for other European malts, the floor malted stuff just tastes more complex and rich. But all of those tend to be more expensive. Also such malts may be slightly less modified, which isn't any big deal unless using a bunch of adjuncts, or someone who tries to pull of short duration mashes but doesn't do a slow warm sparge that lasts for for 2 or more hours like a real pro-brewer would do if they did a short mash. (long slow hot sparge continues conversion, doesn't just "rinse sugars out"). Short mash = long warm sparge. No long sparge or cold sparge, don't do a short mash. Those are my words of wisdom there. I just do long mashes and cold sparge personally. But I've always done long mashes because BIAB/no-sparge background.

The time and care that is put into malting Mecca Grade is why it is so excellent. But also why it is so expensive. It is a special thing for me to buy it, because of that, and would use it to supplement a beer. To go fully with their malts, I need a really damn good reason. IE I will buy some of their wind malt and make a special Belgian beer out of it at some point, I can justify that in my brain because buying good Belgian beer is expensive to begin with.

I've used Canada Malting Superior Pilsner and White Wheat and have nothing bad to say about them. They were good malts.

I don't think I've used Briess anything recently outside of Kit beers that came with it as the base malt.

I hate most smoked malt, but I love Weyermann Oak Smoked Wheat Malt, and have made beers with as much as 70% of it (Grodziskie , Gratzer), in fact I have 6 gallons fermenting now. It is a true "base malt", you *can* use 100% of it, and a Grodziskie can have that much. I just like it better with some pilsner to tone down the smoke a bit, my ratios revolve around a Gratzer recipe I found from a German brewery in the 19th century. The only other similar malt that I know of that is similar is Viking smoked wheat, but it is a tad stronger and rougher edged. IE I would max out with 60% of it vs. the Weyermann stuff. It is what I used in the beer I'm making now, I am familiar enough with the difference between it and Weyermann now to be confident I will like the results with that proportion difference letting more pils soften it a bit. But I would prefer the Weyermann stuff, it's just that MoreBeer doesn't carry it and that's where my last order was from. In any case the Oak Smoked wheat in smaller amounts is a nice addition to all sorts of beers, the smoke is "sweet" and play nicely against hops not just malt, I've used it in Bitters, ESBs, and fruity IPAs and liked it quite much.

I'll likely think of others later.

[MadBrewer]

MB, not directly answer to your malt question, but am surprised you don't mill your own grains. I've had a grain mill since shortly after started brewing. If I buy from my LHBS they will mill for free, but I always liked doing it myself just before am ready to brew and it always comes out the same. I can't get BestMalz Redx around here and I like it so I bought a sack and mill some when I want to use it.

I am surprised by it too at times, but I really had no reason to. Between how often I brew, my batch size and so much availability at my LHBS it didn't interest me to store grain or make the purchase of the grain mill. I could still very easily do without it, but to improve on some of my beers I know using better base malts than Briess is a must. Actually a big reason is sometimes I don't always plan ahead very well when I brew. It might be spare of the moment, brew day might be changed and there's always the I just don't know what to brew so taking a 30 min round trip to the LHBS was just the most convenient thing to do.

The thing that changed is after all these years of brewing I have kind of worked out all the different styles I want to try to brew, different yeasts, hops...etc so now comes a time where I feel I can be more in line to purchasing a sack here and there and work through it with beers I know I want to brew and line up a better brew plan for a few or several batches in a row. What kind of mill do you have Berryman?

[MadBrewer]

I've had good luck with Viking malt.

What they call Pale malt it is more like a British Pale malt. It is kilned a bit more, so it gives a slightly darker color, so it is not really a direct replacement for American 2-row if expecting the same results. I get good yields with it, but perhaps people need to modify their crush slightly and/or not try to short cut their mash times when using to get the best results if they are just crushing it the same gap they are using for their normal 2-row.

The Viking extra pale malt is probably a better choice if someone is trying to replace American 2-row and achieve more similar results.

The Pilsner is a bit less modified but all good European pilsner malts tend to fall into that category. But it tastes nice and makes very good beer if you treat it right. Every Nordic Farmhouse brewery I've seen pictures of has sacks of the Viking Pilsner in their building.

I've had good luck with their Light and Dark Munich malts.

I have a bunch of Viking Vienna malt, so I'm going to make a Vienna Lager soon. We will see how it comes out, but I expect that I will like it.

As far as the Maris Otter, the best Maris Otter is the floor malted stuff which has more character then others. Same goes for other European malts, the floor malted stuff just tastes more complex and rich. But all of those tend to be more expensive. Also such malts may be slightly less modified, which isn't any big deal unless using a bunch of adjuncts, or someone who tries to pull of short duration mashes but doesn't do a slow warm sparge that lasts for for 2 or more hours like a real pro-brewer would do if they did a short mash. (long slow hot sparge continues conversion, doesn't just "rinse sugars out"). Short mash = long warm sparge. No long sparge or cold sparge, don't do a short mash. Those are my words of wisdom there. I just do long mashes and cold sparge personally. But I've always done long mashes because BIAB/no-sparge background.

The time and care that is put into malting Mecca Grade is why it is so excellent. But also why it is so expensive. It is a special thing for me to buy it, because of that, and would use it to supplement a beer. To go fully with their malts, I need a really damn good reason. IE I will buy some of their wind malt and make a special Belgian beer out of it at some point, I can justify that in my brain because buying good Belgian beer is expensive to begin with.

I've used Canada Malting Superior Pilsner and White Wheat and have nothing bad to say about them. They were good malts.

I don't think I've used Briess anything recently outside of Kit beers that came with it as the base malt.

I hate most smoked malt, but I love Weyermann Oak Smoked Wheat Malt, and have made beers with as much as 70% of it (Grodziskie , Gratzer), in fact I have 6 gallons fermenting now. It is a true "base malt", you *can* use 100% of it, and a Grodziskie can have that much. I just like it better with some pilsner to tone down the smoke a bit, my ratios revolve around a Gratzer recipe I found from a German brewery in the 19th century. The only other similar malt that I know of that is similar is Viking smoked wheat, but it is a tad stronger and rougher edged. IE I would max out with 60% of it vs. the Weyermann stuff. It is what I used in the beer I'm making now, I am familiar enough with the difference between it and Weyermann now to be confident I will like the results with that proportion difference letting more pils soften it a bit. But I would prefer the Weyermann stuff, it's just that MoreBeer doesn't carry it and that's where my last order was from. In any case the Oak Smoked wheat in smaller amounts is a nice addition to all sorts of beers, the smoke is "sweet" and play nicely against hops not just malt, I've used it in Bitters, ESBs, and fruity IPAs and liked it quite much.

I'll likely think of others later.

Mashani, thank you...always great input. Viking malt, that was another brand I was looking at. I have heard mixed reviews but your experience is reassuring. I also heard mixed reviews with Avangard, but personally have liked the results. Good Maris Otter malt would probably be the malt I would be willing to splurge on, aside from that a good, all around general Pale Ale malt is what I'm hoping to find for those middle of the road beers I love to brew. Pale Ale, IPA, Ambers, Browns, Porters, Stouts. Actually I got a nice Bitter on the brain, might want to brew one soon.

[berryman]

. What kind of mill do you have Berryman?

funny you asked.
I have 2, a homemade one but didn’t have the right knerling tool to get the results I wanted so bought one from my LHBS and had it a long time, don’t know the name brand but always had it working the way I wanted and adjusted. Lately the the dead roller would quit so I got it tore all apart at the moment, along side of wife vacuum cleaner she what’s me to fix. So little time on fixing everything when a
retired mechanic. LOL


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[BlackDuck]

I agree on your opinion of the Avangard Pilsner, it’s much better than Briess. I’ve used both and can notice a difference. The Avangard has a better yellow color and better flavor. Just doesn’t seem as bland as the Briess.


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