Fruity Fermentation

[jpjpjp]

Just checked my very first batch of new demon beer after 7 days of fermentation. As per directions I expected the American prophecy ale to taste like flat beer (ready for bottling) or to taste sweet (needs more fermentation)

The sample was cloudy and tasted slightly fruity. Not sweet but almost like hard cider. Would more fermentation help? The temperature of the wort has been on the low side of the recommend range and I haven’t noticed any activity in the release valve since the first day.

The one thing I may have done wrong is added the yeast while the wort was still too hot. I realized this perhaps 5-10 minutes after sealing up the fermenter and saw that the temp was already at the low end of the acceptable range but it IS possible that it may have been too hot initially. Is cloudy/cidery beer a possible outcome from inactive yeast?

[bpgreen]

A cidery flavor is a sign of green beer.

I usually let my brews ferment 2-3 weeks. At colder temperatures, the yeast works more slowly.

I keg now, but when I was bottling, I'd give them at least 2-3 weeks at room temperature, then at least a week in the fridge. Some people only put them in the fridge for 3 days to get the co2 absorbed. I used to do that until I left some in the fridge while I was on a business trip and found that the beer was greatly improved.

You said that you added the yeast while the wort was too hot. How hot? It's unlikely that it was hot enough to kill the yeast or it would taste sweet rather than cidery.

It will probably clear up with additional fermentation time. It will clear up more in the bottle, especially in the refrigerator.

[mashani]

To add to what BP said.

The cidery flavor is acetaldehyde, it is a byproduct of fermentation. The yeast will "eat" and convert it into reserve hibernation fuel once they run out of other stuff to eat, given time. If you taste it, your beer, although possibly fermented out all the way, is not "done" and you should leave it sit longer in your fermenter. It will clean up faster there as there is much more yeast there to "eat" it. If you bottle it, there is a lot less yeast in the bottles, but the same amount of acetaldehyde to clean up. Best case it takes longer to be drinkable without tasting it. Worst case it never goes away completely and you will be sad.

Acetaldehyde is not good for you, it will at the very least give you nasty headaches if you consume enough of it, so beyond simply flavor its best to get rid of it.

I am actually an acetaldehyde super taster and taste it in very small amounts that other might not. To solve this in a way that gets the beer done and drinkable sooner without that flavor, I pitch a lot more yeast then you get with those kits. That way the fermentation is mostly done in 3-4 days, and the rest of the time the beer is sitting on the yeast cake in the fermenter it's consuming all of those byproducts, so I can bottle at about day 10 without tasting any of it. Day 7, even with my pitch rates, I would likely still taste acetaldehyde in some beers. I always go 10-14 days in the fermenter.

I follow this calculator at what they call "Pro Brewer 0.75 or 1.0" rates mostly.

EDIT: Correct calculator.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/

[bpgreen]

To add to what BP said.

The cidery flavor is acetaldehyde, it is a byproduct of fermentation. The yeast will "eat" and convert it into reserve hibernation fuel once they run out of other stuff to eat, given time. If you taste it, your beer, although possibly fermented out all the way, is not "done" and you should leave it sit longer in your fermenter. It will clean up faster there as there is much more yeast there to "eat" it. If you bottle it, there is a lot less yeast in the bottles, but the same amount of acetaldehyde to clean up. Best case it takes longer to be drinkable without tasting it. Worst case it never goes away completely and you will be sad.

Acetaldehyde is not good for you, it will at the very least give you nasty headaches if you consume enough of it, so beyond simply flavor its best to get rid of it.

I am actually an acetaldehyde super taster and taste it in very small amounts that other might not. To solve this in a way that gets the beer done and drinkable sooner without that flavor, I pitch a lot more yeast then you get with those kits. That way the fermentation is mostly done in 3-4 days, and the rest of the time the beer is sitting on the yeast cake in the fermenter it's consuming all of those byproducts, so I can bottle at about day 10 without tasting any of it. Day 7, even with my pitch rates, I would likely still taste acetaldehyde in some beers. I always go 10-14 days in the fermenter.

I follow this calculator at what they call "Pro Brewer 0.75 or 1.0" rates mostly.

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

Is that a flash calculator? Every browser I tried said it's an unsupported plugin.

I could swear you posted a link to another calculator recently that I could use (but I didn't bookmark it).

[mashani]

Yeah, they need to fix it, all browsers have killed flash now totally... happy new year!

You can get Mr. Malty yeast calculator for your phone on the app stores in the meantime.

[berryman]

mash, I thought you were using the one I use? https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/ That works on my laptop or Iphone

[mashani]

mash, I thought you were using the one I use? https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/ That works on my laptop or Iphone

Hahaha, you are correct, and I just posted the wrong freaking link.

Yes, use the one Berryman just posted and ignore what I posted.

[berryman]

Hahaha, you are correct, and I just posted the wrong freaking link.

Yes, use the one Berryman just posted and ignore what I posted.

Ha Ha kinda thought that. On the OT, sounds to me likes needs more time in the fermenter and that green apple will mostly go away with time. When first started on MB kits I used the little packs that came with the kits, on the old MB forum everyone would say to use 2 packs, so tried it and worked better, then when branching out with different yeast would pitch a 11.5 or smack pac in 2.5 gal and thought wow that is better but didn't know why but worked great, I know now. Mash told about that yeast calculator sometime back and I have been roughly following it and very good results. Sometimes looks like overkill on yeast, but works.

[bpgreen]

mash, I thought you were using the one I use? https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/ That works on my laptop or Iphone

Hahaha, you are correct, and I just posted the wrong freaking link.

Yes, use the one Berryman just posted and ignore what I posted.

Bookmarked now.

[HerbMeowing]

always ferment at least 2 weeks ... 3 be better
no harm - no foul even if your wait 4 weeks before packaging
going a little long is better than bottling too soon

non-issues ...
- cloudy sample (clears up over time and cold conditioning)
- fruity taste (ferment another week or two)
- cessation of activity in the release value
- pitching yeast into too warm wort (if you killed the yeast ... there wouldn't have been any activity in the release valve)

the good news;
what's in our fermentors wants to b/come beer
as long as we practice good sanitation and keep fermentation temperatures from getting too high ... it will be beer
it may not always be the beer we were expecting but it will be beer ...

Keep On Brewin'

[mashani]

Hahaha, you are correct, and I just posted the wrong freaking link.

Yes, use the one Berryman just posted and ignore what I posted.

Ha Ha kinda thought that. On the OT, sounds to me likes needs more time in the fermenter and that green apple will mostly go away with time. When first started on MB kits I used the little packs that came with the kits, on the old MB forum everyone would say to use 2 packs, so tried it and worked better, then when branching out with different yeast would pitch a 11.5 or smack pac in 2.5 gal and thought wow that is better but didn't know why but worked great, I know now. Mash told about that yeast calculator sometime back and I have been roughly following it and very good results. Sometimes looks like overkill on yeast, but works.

Yeah I use the phone version and had a brain fart when I posted the link.

[jpjpjp]

Wow...really appreciate all the feedback. Happy to hear that this is a "give it more time" issue and not a "you ruined it" issue. Its cool how much knowledge and support there is in these forums!

Will taste again at the two week mark and let folks know how the progress goes!

[berryman]

Wow...really appreciate all the feedback. Happy to hear that this is a "give it more time" issue and not a "you ruined it" issue. Its cool how much knowledge and support there is in these forums!

Will taste again at the two week mark and let folks know how the progress goes!

Almost always when brewing, as long as good sanitation and close to the right fermenting temps. and given enough time you will make beer. Keep us posted and ask questions as needed.

[FrozenInTime]

Pretty much everything covered above. Build yourself a decent pipeline so your not tempted to condition/bottle too soon. IMHO What I do, but I usually have from 4 to 8 kegs conditioning, I put all fermenting beer/cider, etc in the corner of the room and forget it for atleast 3 weeks, usually closer to 4. Then I keg, clear of oxygen and pressurize with C02 for conditioning/carbing for a month minimum. Or in bottles, depends on what it is at that time. To be honest, most my beer sits in bottles/kegs for 5-6 months before tapping. Did you say what your batch size/carboy is? When I used Mr. Beer, those little barrel kegs were perfect shape albeit 2 gallons which is why I had several going at a time. I would, before bottling, put in the refrigerator for 3 to 6 days. You talk about bottling clear beer, it was incredible how it looked like it was filtered, very clear! If you can't/don't do that, as I did not always do and I wanted clear beer in a glass, I would put the bottles in the fridge for atleast a week before popping a top, would be fairly clear. A tool I did not see mentioned, worth it's weight in gold, is a hydrometer (https://www.morebeer.com/products/tripl ... meter.html). Cheap and takes ALL the guessing out.

[jpjpjp]

Week 2 Update. Brew Demon instructions recommended bottling after 7 days in fermentor (2 gallons). My original post here was after 8 or 9 days.

Its now been 15 days and I went to pull another sample and found that nothing came out at all when I opened the tap! The Brew Demon has the conical bottom, when I shined a light on it I could see a fair amount of trub, but probably not MUCH more than a week ago and certainly nowhere near the tap.

Any advice on why nothing is coming out the tap?