Apologies for possible miscategorized post

[AcesMarine8282]

Hello and good evening, or good early morning to us on the East Coast. I am starting my hopefully very long and fruitful, or at least fun, foray into home brewing. I am trying to absorb as much information as possible but also limit myself, as it seems one of the easier things to do is to lose track of what you want to do, versus the seemingly endless possibilities of what you could do. Since I am, as I said, very new to the whole hobby of home brewing I am starting by using a brew demon hard cider pro kit, (which seems to be in fine working order although, I won't know 100% for certain until obviously I brew, which I can't do for a few more months unfortunately because I'm having work done on my house and sanitation seems to be a number one priority). One of the things I already appreciate is that this particular kit seems to have the capability of also brewing beer, (I'm also assuming Mead.) That being said, I have as I'm sure a lot of you did so many questions but a few main ones come to mind right away.

From what I gather brew demon was started by a co-founder of Mr beer. With that knowledge, I'm wondering, are the Mr beer refill kits compatible with the brew demon set up?

I also noticed that on both the brew demon website and the Mr beer website that there are advanced recipes. This may sound redundant to ask but does anyone recommend any particular amount of batches under your belt so to speak to start into these recipe kits?

Clone recipes...nah or yay?

If any of you, which it seems should be a lot of you, are using secondary fermenters, if you buy your supplies online where do you recommend getting equipment? I ask specifically about secondary fermenters because at the moment it's what is the hardest thing I'm trying to wrap my head around as far as too much versus too little air. It also seems another big factor for using a secondary fermenter not only for aging but apparently doing everything in your power not to stir and/or bottle the trub?

A secondary fermenter for example, if doing a 2 gallon recipe kit in the brew demon 3 gallon fermenter, is it advisable to go stay at a 3 gallon carboy, or since the recipe only makes 2 gallons would you get a 2 gallon carboy at that point? I mentioned carboy only because that seems to be the most independent/universally type of fermenter without being brand specific. I noticed what looks like to be quality equipment for decent prices on the Northern Brewer/midwest supplies website's. Midwest supplies for whatever reason seems to be a clone but only cheaper prices than Northern Brewer also I hope I'm allowed to say other websites.

I'm also a big pruponent of keeping things as simple and/or as close to traditional recipes as possible. With that being said for example, I am not going to go to an orchard and press my own apple juice. I like the fact that this shortcut is available but not so much that it takes all the fun out of the potential. That's the main reason I would like to do mead because it seems like it's one of the if not the most basic alcoholic beverage to make. I figure if I start with the ancient Joe recipe I should get at least something halfway good.

One possibly very stupid question that I have is also at some point I would like to use mulling spices would I let those just sit in the fermenter as is and fall into the trub or whould I use some sort of cloth to soak the spices as it ferments?

One of my other hobbies which I thoroughly enjoy is also growing cannabis for my own personal medical use as well as my parents. Something that I have not gotten into very much is concentrates / infusing. I'm wondering if at some point if you were into trying this what would happen if after infusing either white sugar, brown sugar or possibly even dextrose with either THC or CBD would the taste of either or sugar impact the taste of the beer in a completely negative way?

One final note again I appreciate any and all open arms to welcome me into this hopefully amazing lifelong journey of self-sustainability just in alcohol form LOL. On that note I've never actually had me before so I went to a local liquor store in Rhode Island and when I inquired if they had any mead available I was pointed to a bottle of bourbon which just happened to have "Meade" in the title of the manufacturer I believe. LOL obviously I'm not very well versed in most of this lingo but I am pretty sure that bourbon is very different from the honey wine mead is supposed to resemble but maybe I'm way off?

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[mashani]

From what I gather brew demon was started by a co-founder of Mr beer. With that knowledge, I'm wondering, are the Mr beer refill kits compatible with the brew demon set up?

Assuming you got a 3 gallon brew demon fermente, then anything that isn't a 5 gallon kit is going to work just fine.

I also noticed that on both the brew demon website and the Mr beer website that there are advanced recipes. This may sound redundant to ask but does anyone recommend any particular amount of batches under your belt so to speak to start into these recipe kits?

Brew a few or a handful of regular ones first and make sure you understand the process, especially proper sanitation, etc. Then go for one of the ones with steeping grains, they are called "advanced" but they arn't difficult. Steeping grains is like making tea. Not hard, it just adds a step and some time.

I think Mr. Beer has added some "even more advanced" ones very recently which are just unhoped extract, steeping grains, and boiling your own hops. That is what we would call "extract brewing". It's still not as "advanced" as all grain brewing, but you can do that with your little kit too if you have a big enough pot. Northern Brewer / Midwest, and maybe others also sell similar 3 gallon extract kits that will work the same and will be ok in your fermenter as well.

Clone recipes...nah or yay?

Depends if that's what you want really. I rarely bother trying to clone a beer.

If any of you, which it seems should be a lot of you, are using secondary fermenters

I rarely would ever use one. They are mostly useless and just add another thing to clean and add another chance to contaminate the beer or introduce oxygen post fermentation (which is bad).

The ONLY time I would use one is if I was brewing an authentic sour beer with wild bugs because they take a long long time to age. Or maybe if I was brewing a very very strong beer, but I rarely do that. (by very very strong I mean 12% or something stupid). You don't need a secondary to brew an 8% beer in 2 or 3 weeks, you just need to pitch more yeast so it gets done without stressing them out.

I figure if I start with the ancient Joe recipe I should get at least something halfway good.

That will give good results, but get a 1 gallon glass jug or a glass carboy to do it in. I normally wouldn't use one as a secondary, but it's better for meads that have to sit around for a long time to get done like that kind.

Another option, go to MoreBeer.com and find their article about brewing mead with a yeast nutrient schedule, read it, and come back with questions if you don't get it. And then if you brew a lower ABV mead (hydromel or something 6%ish or so) instead of something stronger, and you follow that kind of process, you can turn such a mead around in 3-4 weeks and do it in your existing plastic fermenter, and then let it age in the bottles.

One possibly very stupid question that I have is also at some point I would like to use mulling spices would I let those just sit in the fermenter as is and fall into the trub or whould I use some sort of cloth to soak the spices as it ferments?

If boiling, many spices can be ground and added about 10 minutes before the end of the boil. Another option is to soak them in a little container with an ounce or so of vodka or similar shaking it every day for a week while your beer or cider is fermenting, and then throw that liquid into the fermenter at some point. Or you can boil them in a little bit of water and make a "tea" out of them and add that "tea" to your fermenter at some point.

You can also make a tea bag out of them using whatever works for you, and toss that into your fermenter after a week or so and let it steep for another week or so, but make sure you sanitize the bag. Be aware that spices can harbor wild yeast or other buggers, so the boil or the vodka ways are the ones I would suggest if you want the most guaranteed consistent results. The alcohol and ph of the fermented product will suppress many things after 7 days of fermenting, but there are a few things that are opportunistic and can still cause trouble or lead to "wild" results. You won't make something that will harm you by doing this, but you can make something that doesn't taste good.

[BlackDuck]

Professor Mashani always comes through with great answers!!!!!

So, I’ll just welcome you to the Borg. Stay patient, your first few brews will be good and drinkable, but they get so much better over time as you learn and apply new techniques. Welcome to the obsession!!


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[AcesMarine8282]

Assuming you got a 3 gallon brew demon fermente, then anything that isn't a 5 gallon kit is going to work just fine.

Indeed I did get the 3 gallon fermenter.. the recipe says that it makes 2 gallons so initially that's why I was a bit confused.

Brew a few or a handful of regular ones first and make sure you understand the process, especially proper sanitation, etc. Then go for one of the ones with steeping grains, they are called "advanced" but they arn't difficult. Steeping grains is like making tea. Not hard, it just adds a step and some time.

I think Mr. Beer has added some "even more advanced" ones very recently which are just unhoped extract, steeping grains, and boiling your own hops. That is what we would call "extract brewing". It's still not as "advanced" as all grain brewing, but you can do that with your little kit too if you have a big enough pot. Northern Brewer / Midwest, and maybe others also sell similar 3 gallon extract kits that will work the same and will be ok in your fermenter as well.

This well eventually create a pleasant problem what to try to brew as far as practice recipes even if I do manage to run through all of the cider kits. It gets me very excited to know that I will have a very very large recipe book to try and learn from so to speak.

Depends if that's what you want really. I rarely bother trying to clone a beer.

For what it's worth I was not really in love with the idea of trying to clone a beer recipe. In my mind whether I'm making the cider or the beer or meat I want to try to stick with as much tradition or as much of a traditional recipe at least to learn the ropes. If I were going to use a clone recipe, it was going to be more for practice but seeing as those possibilities opened up quite a bit I am more than happy to try different things at first.

I rarely would ever use one. They are mostly useless and just add another thing to clean and add another chance to contaminate the beer or introduce oxygen post fermentation (which is bad).

The ONLY time I would use one is if I was brewing an authentic sour beer with wild bugs because they take a long long time to age. Or maybe if I was brewing a very very strong beer, but I rarely do that. (by very very strong I mean 12% or something stupid). You don't need a secondary to brew an 8% beer in 2 or 3 weeks, you just need to pitch more yeast so it gets done without stressing them out.

Nice to see that my thinking wasn't totally illogical. A ton of the recipes I was looking at had additional and or recommended a secondary carboy, but I like the idea of if I'm reading correctly basically doing that aging within the bottle I was thinking that it would cut down on something else to clean. I was unaware that, again if I am following you correctly, oxygen seems to deteriorate the finished product so much so that I would imagine a bigger carboy or I should say if a carboy has a ton of room that beer or whatever maybe fermenting could possibly get stale tasting?

That will give good results, but get a 1 gallon glass jug or a glass carboy to do it in. I normally wouldn't use one as a secondary, but it's better for meads that have to sit around for a long time to get done like that kind.

Another option, go to MoreBeer.com and find their article about brewing mead with a yeast nutrient schedule, read it, and come back with questions if you don't get it. And then if you brew a lower ABV mead (hydromel or something 6%ish or so) instead of something stronger, and you follow that kind of process, you can turn such a mead around in 3-4 weeks and do it in your existing plastic fermenter, and then let it age in the bottles.

I did go to the more beer.com website unfortunately I was unable to find that particular article but I did read a few different ones regarding adding the yeast nutrients on a cycle also I was reading about the TONSA (Sp.?) Calculators. Obviously splitting the yeast nutrients and or the dosage into four smaller equal servings isn't super hard to understand, however I was having a little difficulty with understanding the differences between the one half and the 1/3 sugar break. My main question regarding the sugar break is how do you know when or if you're at the half or one third sugar break? This is a guess on my part, but I'm guessing this is where a hydrometer or some other measuring device would be ideal.

Side note if anybody does have that particular article bookmarked I would love to read it compared to the other websites that have the staggering nutrients applications.

If boiling, many spices can be ground and added about 10 minutes before the end of the boil. Another option is to soak them in a little container with an ounce or so of vodka or similar shaking it every day for a week while your beer or cider is fermenting, and then throw that liquid into the fermenter at some point. Or you can boil them in a little bit of water and make a "tea" out of them and add that "tea" to your fermenter at some point.

You can also make a tea bag out of them using whatever works for you, and toss that into your fermenter after a week or so and let it steep for another week or so, but make sure you sanitize the bag. Be aware that spices can harbor wild yeast or other buggers, so the boil or the vodka ways are the ones I would suggest if you want the most guaranteed consistent results. The alcohol and ph of the fermented product will suppress many things after 7 days of fermenting, but there are a few things that are opportunistic and can still cause trouble or lead to "wild" results. You won't make something that will harm you by doing this, but you can make something that doesn't taste good.

The grinding and boiling or just the boiling "tea" sounds to me like it would make the most sense in terms of consistent results as you mentioned. If making the "tea" is this method only for the soaked spices in alcohol or would you do this as well if you didn't grinding them at first? Unless needed it sounds like the bag approach opens the door for more potential problems then would be worth for me to do anytime soon. One last question I have regarding the soaking in alcohol method is that I would like to not disturb the basic flavor too much so I'm wondering would everclear be an acceptable substitute to vodka?



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[AcesMarine8282]

Professor Mashani always comes through with great answers!!!!!

So, I’ll just welcome you to the Borg. Stay patient, your first few brews will be good and drinkable, but they get so much better over time as you learn and apply new techniques. Welcome to the obsession!!


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Thank you blackduck, @mashani did let loose a ton of info.. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting involved and more topics as I learn more and can contribute properly.

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