old hops smell like cheese?

[bpgreen]

Have you ever read that old hops smell like cheese and wondered what they really mean by that?

If so, you've never smelled old hops.

I haven't brewed in months, but decided that I'd take advantage of the long weekend.

In preparation for creating the recipe, I went to the freezer to check my inventory (I could probably brew for a decade with what's on hand and what I'll grow). I found a "seal a meal" bag labelled "??nugget??" that had broken its seal.

I cut it open and took a sniff.

Trust me. If you smell old hops, you'll never again wonder what they mean when they say that old hops smell like cheese.

I haven't thrown them out yet, just in case there's some edge case where cheesy hops are useful (@mashani or @the_professor are my most likely bets). But they're definitely not going into this brew.

[Beer-lord]

Years ago I've run into this but since I use a very good bag sealer, I've not run into this. It wasn't really a cheese odor but definitely off. I've used hops that were not as green as I'd like but still smelled fresh with no problems.
I too have a problem with more hops than I can use but I'm working on that.

[mashani]

Old cheesy hops are used in mass quantities (because they have very low AA at that point) as a bittering hop in things like Kriek, Lambic, or Gueuze style beers, or any other kind of sours. The have enough stuff still in them to slow down/suppress *really bad things* but still let the yeast get a foothold and eat most of the sugars, and then let the "good bugs" do their thing after that. (this provides balance, instead of letting the bugs do all the work which might become yucky).

Other then using them as a supplement to bittering hops would be ok, it's just hard to say how much they will actually bitter the beer.

But don't use them for anything besides bittering. Cheesy beer is bad mkay.

[berryman]

My idea on brewing is if I can't use somewhat fresh ingredients and have to take a chance on a off tasting beer after all the work and time, I won't do it. I hate thowing stuff away too, but I also have some old hops in my freezer and have a hard time getting rid of them.

[RickBeer]

Me also. Brewed a bunch of beers a few months back, including an IPA that used several year old hops that smelled fine. However, they were not as aromatic as they would be newer, and the final beer's aroma isn't what I would like. Tough - because buying a pound is attractive until you don't use it fast enough.

[1919]

I've never smelt it or dealt it, in this case. What kind of cheese?

[bpgreen]

I've never smelt it or dealt it, in this case. What kind of cheese?

Not a good kind. At least not for hops. Hops should smell like hops. If they smell like cheese, that's a bad sign.

[mashani]

I've never smelt it or dealt it, in this case. What kind of cheese?

Not a good kind. At least not for hops. Hops should smell like hops. If they smell like cheese, that's a bad sign.

Kind of like stink foot. If you know the kinds of cheese that smell like stink foot, it's like that. Nutritional Yeast has this sort of smell too. (which is why it is used as a cheese substitute by vegetarians, as well as for extra vitamins).

Isovaleric acid is the thing involved here. Some Brett strains also make it during fermentation so some Brett beers actually have some of this flavor/aroma in them even without stinky hops. When hops oxidize enough it makes this stuff too.

It is not a "rancid" flavor/aroma, it's like "aged cheese", not "spoiled cheese".

Rancid/Spoiled cheese is something totally different, that is Butyric acid in small amounts, and that in enough quantity is more like sour vomit. (some bad beer infections can give you this). As far as I know hops can't make this. Only the "aged cheese".

When used as a pure bittering hop and boiled for a long time those cheesy hops won't make your beer smell or taste like cheese. They are commonly used in very large amounts in lambics and geuze and such because they still provide an antibacterial effect but with minimal AAUs.

But used late in the boil you would notice them.