Bumbling Along

[beerme]

New to the forum and brewing. Got a 2 gallon kit for Xmas. 1st 3 batches not so good. 2 Wiezenbier and 1 Red Ale. They all have the same underlying taste. Can't identify it but it's not really pleasant. Fermented 7 days. Temps were in range but all over the place.///////4th batch, the Dobblebock fermented for 10 days. Tried one bottle 7 days after bottling, much better but still has that weird taste. Just not as strong. When fermenting I also stuck it in the closet with the a/c vent open. Temp. stayed 68-71. Going to let it sit 2-3 more weeks before refrigerating.///////5th batch, Wiezenbier has been in the closet fermenter 2 weeks now. Going to bottle tomorrow. High hopes. Guess I'll get another fermenter if I let them go two weeks or more. Just discovered the best if use date for the HME's is expired on all 3 of the Red Ale kits I have waiting to brew. UME and HME both expired on the Dobblebock. Makes me wonder about the undated yeast packets. Dates run from 2-15-20 to 3-1-20. Problem?

[HerbMeowing]

That taste?
That twang comes from stale malt extract.
Even fresh extract carries a hint of it IMO.

Ferment 2 - 3 wks
Carb / bottle condition 4 - 6 wks
Enjoy!

Don't get discouraged.
Learning to home brew takes more than a few tries.

[beerme]

Thank you, does that twang decrease with longer fermenting and carb/conditioning. I ended up giving most of it away. Guess I was expecting Sam Adams my first time out of the gate.

[John Sand]

Fresher makes a difference with liquid extract, less so with dry yeast.
My first several batches were just about okay. Study and practice improved my brewing, it will yours too.
I think a second fermenter is a good idea.

[HerbMeowing]

... does that twang decrease with longer fermenting and carb/conditioning.

Sadly ... no.

At this point ... new brewers should concentrate on developing their process ... i.e., hewing close to the directions ... cleanliness ... sanitation ... temperature control ... patience ... and perseverance.

[The_Professor]

Although beers can turn out well using HME cans I had better luck using extract kits with steeping grains and hop boil.
The process takes a little longer.
Try something like this Irish Red Ale recipe to compare against the Red Ale you made.
Unfortunately it is easier to find 2.5 gallon kits than 2.0 gallon kits.
Just multiply ingredients by .8 to get the right amount for a 2 gallon batch.
I would suggest keeping fermentation temperature (which is not not room temperature) under 70 for better results.

[beerme]

Thank you all for the information. The more I learn the more I realize how important temp. control is. Surprised the HME kits have such a broad range. Do the extract kits from Love2brew come with good instructions? And I guess I want the grains crushed? Quite a few HME recipes to brew before I try one but the process seems like more fun. And a step further towards actual brewing like the pros. And about the yeast, I guess I'm using dry to start here. The extract kit asks if I want an ice pack with the yeast (guess I do if they recommend). Is that "wet" yeast or what?

[beerme]

And yes, I am being meticulous with prep and sanitizing but when the instructions call for 4-7 days fermenting you can see where it might get us newbies less than desirable results. About the sanitizer, it says no rinsing required, just air dry. I've been rinsing with distilled water anyway but can't see where that would hurt, would it?

[The_Professor]

I've used different extract kits in the past. The instructions are similar. I grabbed what I thought worked best from different sources.

Basically, you will bring some water to a boil. Maybe a gallon for the 2 gallon kit. You want to add no more than 2 lbs of extract per gallon of water. All the rest just after the boil. If you add it all at first your beer will be darker than it is supposed to be.
When the water plus extract returns to a boil you will adjust the heat for a low rolling boil and add hops per the instructions. 60 minutes for bittering hops and perhaps other additions for flavor.
At the end of the boil remove the pot from the heat and mix in the remaining extract.
You then want to bring the temperature down to 70ish. You can top off with chilled water or use an ice slurry in the sink. Then pour it into your fermenter, pitch your yeast and monitor the fermentation.

Order ice for the yeast if the temperature is really warm either at the shipping location or yours. Dry or liquid yeast is up to you. Either works well.
You would want the grains crushed. You will be "steeping" the grains before the boil. Methods vary. Bring water to boil, remove from heat and add grains in muslin bag for a period of time. Bring water to a specific temperature and let grains steep for a specific time. Cold steep the grains for a few hours before bringing the water to a boil.

[beerme]

Thanks again. I'll let ya know how it goes once I give it a try.

[LouieMacGoo]

Just throwing this out there, but the extracts that Brewdemon uses are the same ones that Mr. Beer used to use, just renamed. One of the things i seem to remember from those extract is that they use the Pride of Ringwood hops that some people tend to have a real sensitivity for in an unfavorable way. This might be part of what you're tasting. I do think that longer fermentation/condition will help improve the beer although it's only going to be as good as the ingredients you put into it.

[bpgreen]

Just throwing this out there, but the extracts that Brewdemon uses are the same ones that Mr. Beer used to use, just renamed. One of the things i seem to remember from those extract is that they use the Pride of Ringwood hops that some people tend to have a real sensitivity for in an unfavorable way. This might be part of what you're tasting. I do think that longer fermentation/condition will help improve the beer although it's only going to be as good as the ingredients you put into it.

I could be mistaken, but I think it's Coopers (and by extension Mr Beer) that use pride of ringwood hops. IIRC, @mashani is especially sensitive to a certain flavor in those hops.

[mashani]

Yes it's the CURRENT Mr. Beer / Coopers that have Pride of Ringwood in them as a bittering hop, or at least did last time I tried them. The old Mr. Beer ones did not, so the Brew Demon ones should not. Even used just as a bittering hop, I taste them as strongly wood like, and not a good kind of wood way. (IE not like oak aged, bit like bitter wood yuck).

You can reduce the "twang" by increasing your beer batch size (IE instead of 2 gallons go for 2.5) and use some corn sugar to make up the difference from an ABV perspective (like 4-8oz depending on the batch). This isn't so much of an increase to totally throw off the beer from a style standpoint and you are not trying to increase the ABV here by using sugar. You are trying to dilute out the effect on flavor that the maliard reaction of the liquid extract has, which is what gives that weird sweet but not like crystal malt vibe by increasing the volume bein brewed. You could adjust the late hops a little bit if it's an APA/IPA style and your adding them. This will also help lighten the beers color, which will often be darker then it's supposed to be unless the extract is very fresh.

Also the Brew Demon kits are (or at least were) using S-33 as their kit yeast, and it has a specific flavor profile that is not neutral IMHO. Just going to a different yeast like S-05 or S-04 might help from a perception standpoint. Part of what you are tasting could be that as well.

Mr. Beer kits use Coopers yeast these days, and it's more neutral then S-33 and I like it better.

[beerme]

A lot of good information. Thank you all for providing detailed enough explanations this newbie can understand. //////////I don't drink for effect anymore but love craft beers so I think I'll just stick with proven recipes for a while. Very good information though. I have really changed my expectations on having people over for flights of my home brews. Not taking the rona into account I was planning on a tasting around the pool in June. Now I see it will be more like Halloween before I have enough different types done the correct way./////////////////////////Oh, I was planning on using clear Grolsch bottles for the middle 3 bottles for sharing. (1 liter) Figured those bottled in the middle of the batch would be best. Any science/experience behind this idea? I condition and keep everything in a dark closet.

[mashani]

Only bottles that typically are different are the 1st and last, and only because they tend to have more "trub" in them. Normally doesn't even affect the character/flavor, just maybe they pour cloudy if you are not extra careful. There is no reason to specifically target the "middle" bottles as the best.