all grain kits.. mixed or not?

[zorak1066]

I am doing my research for one day soon (hopefully) starting all grain. I was thinking of trying a northern brewer all grain kit using D180 instead of candi sugar solids. I would be limited to my boil size so I would need to make 2 half batches of 2.5 gallons. I would want my grain unmilled so I could take my time and not have to worry about spoilage.

question: does NB pack the grains in separate bags? or is everything pre-mixed in a bag (grain)?

question: if mixed in one bag can I split the grains equally or will there be risk of uneven blending of grains?

question: if a recipe calls for 1 lb of candi sugar solids, would 1 lb of candi sugar liquid be equivalent? or is there some conversion factor like with dme vs lme?

question: is a mashout necessary? what does it do?

question: how fine do you mill the grain?

thanks in advance....


--Z--

[FedoraDave]

According to Palmer, a mashout isn't always necessary. http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html It would depend on the water/grain ratio, and what grains are in the recipe in order to avoid a stuck sparge, such as if you were using oats or wheat, which can get gummy. I've never performed a mashout, and haven't had any issues.

I've never done an AG kit from Norther Brewer, so I can't address those questions. I would think, though, that if the grains are mixed, it's better not to split them and assume you're getting an even mix of grains. That just seems to defy the odds. NB does have a toll-free number, so it might be worth your time to give it a call and ask them directly.

I've never used Candi sugar, but I would think the same principle applies as with DME/LME. One pound of the dry simply can't be equivalent to one pound of the liquid, because the liquid has water in it, and water has weight. As far as conversion, I couldn't even begin to guess.

Milling grains can be a little tricky, and might take some time to get right if you're doing it yourself. The hulls should be cracked, not pulverized, and the meat of the grain should be fairly chunky. I'm trying to come up with a size comparison and the best I can do is this: You know when you separate two peanut halves and there's that little nubby piece? A little smaller, on average, than that. Two-thirds to half that size. Pretty vague, I know, but it's the best I can do. You'll also get floury residue, and some bits that don't grind much at all. It's all good, as long as the bulk of what you put in comes out in good shape.

Others will suggest using a spark plug gapper to measure the space, and perhaps even provide numbers, and that's all good, but I couldn't and didn't do that when I started grinding my own grain. I just set the gap a certain way, tinkered with it a bit, and when it came out looking like what I'd been getting from Northern Brewer, I left it at that, and I've been getting about 75% efficiency ever since.

Well, I don't know if my reply helped you at all, but maybe it's a starting point for you.

[Beer-lord]

I do BIAB and only mash out about half the time. You really don't need to with a BIAB.
I've purchased about 5 kits from NB and all were unmilled and came in one, very large bag.
I have the Barley Crusher and kept my gab set at factory default of .039 and only mill once. It works perfect for me and after more than a year, I've not had to readjust it yet.

[John Sand]

As above, they will come mixed. I bought my kit ground. I also BIAB, and do my "grinding" in an old blender. I would split the mixed batch if I needed to, just mix them thoroughly first. But, if you are moving to AG, you might also move to five gallons. Or, buy separate ingredients and mix your own batches.

[DaYooper]

I havent tried with NB, but I know many places will also split a 5g kit into 2.5g for those Mr. Beer brewers. Couldnt hurt to ask if they would split it for your. The other option is to ask them if they could package the grains individually. I am guessing with them being their house kits they make the majority of them per order.

[zorak1066]

thanks everyone... ALL very very helpful replies and greatly appreciated.

-Z-

[zorak1066]

another question:

I realize that for the freshest brew one should leave grain unmilled until ready to use... but what if one orders the grains pre-crushed? assuming they ship right away and it takes a week to get here.. and I sit on the kit for awhile... what kind of window is there before quality starts to suffer? I guess I'm asking how long can you keep crushed grains sitting around (in a sealed bag) before the quality of your beer starts to noticeably suffer?

thanks again everyone... and dave you made perfect sense to me. I totally suck at abstract visualization so your peanut kernel example really helped.

edit- sorry I got lazy and didn't do my due-diligence til now. it seems if properly stored in a sealed container, crushed or uncrushed, a couple weeks of sitting around shouldn't hurt things. (assumption- humidity controlled, stable temp, airtight bag) that was the general consensus on another forum. do the pros here agree? I trust you guys more than strangers.

[RickBeer]

I buy two batches at once, mill and seal the bags. I've had them sit for 6 weeks. Tasted fine. My LGBS has milled and bagged recipes sitting on the shelf.

[FedoraDave]

Vacuum sealer.

[Gymrat]

You don't need to mash out. And Northern Brewer kits do come with the grain mixed. I wouldn't attempt to break one in half because you don't know which side has the most of which grains. The mix wouldn't be right if you try splitting it.

[jimjohson]

You don't need to mash out. And Northern Brewer kits do come with the grain mixed. I wouldn't attempt to break one in half because you don't know which side has the most of which grains. The mix wouldn't be right if you try splitting it.

I agree with Gymrat. you will get 2 beers, but they probably won't taste quite the same.

[Chuck N]

(B)uy separate ingredients and mix your own batches.

This here is you best solution. There are soooo many recipes out there in both print and on the inner-web and they only require simple mathematics to convert to whatever size batch you're doing. And then you won't feel so guilty when you put your own name to them. Even if you stole the name from some one else.

[snooze_button]

Northern Brewer also carries a few 3-gallon BIAB all-grain kits. I know that they make them per order, because I walked into the store to buy one last month and couldn't even find a shelf for them. I asked about it, and they printed out the ingredients list & instructions and offered to either make one for me or I could put it together & grind it myself. (Which I did, so it felt very hands-on. Part of the bonus of living nearby.)

They only offer four recipes that way, or at least that's what's officially on the menu. I've got a 3-gallon batch of the Jake's Cascadian Dark Ale conditioning right now.