Eclectic IPA

[yankfan9]

I am going to use up some leftover ingredients and figure I will made an eclectic beer with quite a few different malts and see how it turns out. I am certain it will make beer I am shooting for it to be a nice interesting malty IPA with good mouthfeel but not high ABV, with a great hop flavor and aroma. What do you all think? As dry hopping necessary if I hop burst like this? I have never hop bursted before so please feel free to critique which hops go at what time or anything about the order or times!

2.75gal BIAB
Mash temp - 154
Yeast - US-05
OG - 1.054 IBU-64.8
5 lb American - Pale 2-Row 78.8%
8 oz American - Munich - Light 10L 7.9%
4.5 oz American - Caramel / Crystal 40L 4.4%
4 oz American - Rye 3.9%
4 oz Flaked Barley 3.9%
1 oz American - Black Malt 1% (To darken it a bit)
0.5 oz Cascade Pellet 60 min
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 15 min
0.25 oz Centennial Pellet 10 min
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 10 min
0.25 oz Centennial Pellet 5 min
0.25 oz Citra Pellet 5 min
0.25 oz Citra Pellet 1 min
0.25 oz Centennial Pellet 1 min
0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 1 min

[BlackDuck]

Looks like a good recipe. I think you'll get the malty side of it as you mentioned you wanted. As for your question on dry hopping. You say that your looking for great hop flavor and aroma....in that case, I would dry hop it too.

[yankfan9]

Alright I will dry hop as well, thanks

[Gymrat]

If this is a 2.5 gallon batch an ounce of black malt will darken it a LOT. And you are not hop bursting here. Hop bursting is when you don't use a bittering addition. In other words, minus your 60 minute addition, you would have a hop burst. You will need to dry hop if you want aroma, and you may find a hop stand will really increase your flavor as well as add to the aroma.

[yankfan9]

In BrewersFriend it shows the black malt bumping the SRM to 12 which doesn't sound too dark to me. So would you recommend I get rid of the bittering addition of the cascade and split that .5 ounces into two additions of .25 ounces somewhere in the late stage of the boil? And I would like to increase the flavor and aroma, what would be the best way to do the hopstand (temperature, time, type of hop?) Sorry I am new to hop bursting and hopstands, as well as IPA's for that matter! I have been brewing for almost 2 years and have only done one IPA... I can think of a few people on here that would be ashamed...

[Gymrat]

I wasn't telling you not to do what you are doing. I was simply pointing out that what you are doing is not hop bursting. To increase flavor I would move 2 of your 1 minute additions to a hop stand. Cool your wort to around 160F, drop your hops in, let it stand half an hour, then chill your wort the rest of the way. To dry hop, after your first week of fermentation drop your hops in. I never leave my beer on the yeast longer than 2 weeks, I feel I get more clarity by getting the beer off the yeast when it is done instead of leaving it on the cake an extra week, but I am pretty much alone on that here. The rest of the borg lets their beer sit on the yeast 3 weeks. If you do that add your dry hops after 2 weeks.

[yankfan9]

Oh I know you weren't telling me what to do, what you were saying just sounded good and I appreciate the suggestions and advice. I like trying new things so I definitely will be trying the hop stand instead of 1 minute additions with the Citra and Centennial additions. I should be able to brew this either Thursday morning or Friday morning, I will let you know how it goes

[yankfan9]

This beer is fermenting away, I brewed it on Friday. One thing to note for the hop stand I did. I didn't realize how fast the wort was chilling and by the time I took the temp it as down to 140. I threw the hops in anyway and then heated it on the stove back up to 160 (took about 5 minutes to get up to temps). Will this have any negative effects on the hop stand? Also, how much should I dry hop with? This is what I have left - 0.5 oz Columbus, 0.25 oz Centennial, 0.75 oz Citra, 0.75 Cascade. Should I just throw em all in?

[Gymrat]

Beginning your hop stand at 140 would have given you more aroma.

[yankfan9]

Alright so no ill effects, lesson learned, check temp more frequently to make sure I haven't cooled it down too much!

[mashani]

Beginning your hop stand at 140 would have given you more aroma.

Agree - but also, assuming you can, which would depend on how you chill - putting a lid on your pot during the hop stand will capture more aroma too. The volatile aroma compounds that get vaporized by the initial temp will condense on the lid of the pot and fall back in and as long as you cool to a temperature they are stable at before you take the lid off you will keep more of them. (using distillation equipment this is how old school perfume was made - vaporize the aroma compounds you want, then re-condense them, and capture them on the other end of the still - a pot with a lid does the same thing, except it's both ends). No lid and they just make your house smell good vs. stay in the beer.

So if you want to do a hop stand at a higher temp to get some utilization for IBUs and more flavor contribution, you can do this and get some of both worlds.

If you are worried about DMS, don't worry - assuming you had a good full duration boil (or if you are using extracts). DMS at this stage of the process is a myth as far as I am concerned. Otherwise every no chill brewer on the planet would be making DMS soup, all canned extracts would be DMS soup, those full wort kits you can buy would be DMS soup.... it's just not going to happen.

[yankfan9]

I did put the lid on during the hop stand so sounds like I just might have captured some more aroma

[braukasper]

I am with Gymrat on getting the beer of the yeast cake. I too am one of the few who secondary.

[Gymrat]

Beginning your hop stand at 140 would have given you more aroma.

Agree - but also, assuming you can, which would depend on how you chill - putting a lid on your pot during the hop stand will capture more aroma too. The volatile aroma compounds that get vaporized by the initial temp will condense on the lid of the pot and fall back in and as long as you cool to a temperature they are stable at before you take the lid off you will keep more of them. (using distillation equipment this is how old school perfume was made - vaporize the aroma compounds you want, then re-condense them, and capture them on the other end of the still - a pot with a lid does the same thing, except it's both ends). No lid and they just make your house smell good vs. stay in the beer.

So if you want to do a hop stand at a higher temp to get some utilization for IBUs and more flavor contribution, you can do this and get some of both worlds.

If you are worried about DMS, don't worry - assuming you had a good full duration boil (or if you are using extracts). DMS at this stage of the process is a myth as far as I am concerned. Otherwise every no chill brewer on the planet would be making DMS soup, all canned extracts would be DMS soup, those full wort kits you can buy would be DMS soup.... it's just not going to happen.

From what I understand the DMS thing is only a threat if you have the lid on during the boil. Also I like the idea of a covered hop stand. Would it be a good idea to sanitize my lid first?

[yankfan9]

For what it's worth I did sanitize my lid before covering it for the hop stand just to be safe. Also, any suggestions on the dry hop? I plan on transferring to the secondary on friday and then dry hopping. This is what I have left - 0.5 oz Columbus, 0.25 oz Centennial, 0.75 oz Citra, 0.75 Cascade