any microsoft gurus here?

[zorak1066]

hi.. quick question. my dell pc xps400 (yeah..its old) just went poop and wont boot. i was running a norton virus scan and told it to sleep when done. when i checked it hours later it was off. went to boot and it failed : BSOD - apparently a norton file is buggered.

went to boot in safe mode - chk dsk ran and said my volume is dirty. i suspect my drive is shot or RAM is shot or both because now it wont even boot in safe mode. two green lights on front of pc..black screen.

months ago i used windows xp backup and restore utility to dump the entire contents of disk to a buffalo drive. i also saved my system state to the drive. i later did an incremental save. some years ago i also made a 'recovery disk' i guess because the CD has the Dell i386 directory and files, and other windows stuff saved on it.

i never got an installation cd for windows xp from dell. for some reason they never sent one.

question: with what i have , if a tech has to replace the hard drive - would he or she be able to clone the unreadable drive so i can use my pc again? dont need to know how to do this because i wont even try. just need to know if it can be done.

thanks for any input.

[RickBeer]

First, forget the idea of paying a tech to fix it. You will spend probably 1/2 the cost of a new PC - you can buy one for $300 - $500. If a new drive is needed, I can help you replace yourself. On a Dell forum, before I quit in 2007 I had 30,000+ posts.

Second, you need to have more of a model number, or look up your PC by service tag. Do that here: http://www.dell.com/support/Manuals/us/ ... ctSelector.

With PCs, knowing exactly what you did and what happened is crucial. Norton antivirus would not stop a PC from booting. The manual should show you that there are diagnostic lights, and also will explain beep codes. Usually, as you boot, the machine will emit beeps and the diagnostic lights will display patterns. Both will provide valuable diagnostic information.

If the drive is shot, then recovery from it is not likely. If the drive is fine, then restoring the computer to a bootable state is possible, although it is possible that you may need a disk you don't have. Dell and other PC makers have not shipped disks in many, many years. Users need to make their own. Some disks, or PCs if the hard disk is fine, restore computers to an "as shipped" state. Others restore XP but not applications. Depending on what you backed up and whether the drive is shot will tell you what you will be able to get back to.

FYI, my mom's drive died some years back. She can't change a lightbulb. Over the phone I got her to put a new drive in.

I suggest PMing, the whole Borg doesn't need to get the blow by blow.

What is your service tag? Are you using another PC to post info?

[jimjohson]

i don't know rick i knew about the beeps but not the lights. cool, i learned something new.

[zorak1066]

okeedokey... gotta leave soon but sent a pm. hey i am originally from MI too! and... went to U of M (dearborn). GO BLUE!

[teutonic terror]

Hey zorak!
If it's anything like the 5 Dells I have, then it has a ghost partition on the hard drive.

Check this link and follow the directions. I've done this several times to mine and it makes it just like the day you bought it! This is why Dell doesn't supply a Windows disc with the computers.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5020612_easily- ... tings.html

Good luck and I hope your drive isn't shot!

[duff]

i don't know rick i knew about the beeps but not the lights. cool, i learned something new.

Dell is really good about putting diagnostic lights on the outside of the case. I have had to support many other computers that didn't have diagnostic lights or had them tucked away on the motherboard that was at of course covered by some of the cables.

RickBeer has got a pretty covered everything I would normally cover although if your system is experiencing BSODs the lights won't always show an issue.

If you are going to go the route of hiring a technician to do it I would suggest finding a local mom and pop computer store in your area that has good reviews if you can. Places like BestBuy routinely get busted for selling unnecessary services and charging for unneeded repairs. And the small shops typically charge less. Depending on what is wrong they may or may not be able to just fix the software issue. If it is a drive that needs replacement restoring from your previous backup shouldn't be an issue although as an IT professional I have to say if you haven't tested your backups there may be nothing there. All too often I have restored from a customers backup only to find it in a not working condition.

Just another suggestion if you are going to pay for service with a computer that old it might be cheaper to buy a new computer. A lot of stores will then copy your data off your previous drive for free or at a discounted rate. A computer you bought this way might not be as fancy as your current one is when you bought it but the modern hardware should outperform your computer as long as you avoid the Celeron processors and whatever the AMD equivalent is. I can't have caffeine today but if my brain ever does start working again and I remember what these are called I'll post again.

[RickBeer]

Manufacturers don't supply disks (or manuals any longer) to save money. The user is responsible for making disks right away. Most don't. If there is a hardware problem, restoring software won't fix it. A bad drive (unlikely based on what I see here) is best left alone, you get a new one, and try to transfer the data before it gives up the ghost (pun intended). I've put drives in the freezer to get data off them (for some issues it works).

Any of the hidden partitions, or many "Recovery" disks, make the computer "as shipped". All data, and all software added after purchase is gone. In the old days the Windows disk allowed you to REPAIR a Windows installation. Now some manufacturers also build that into their software, but again - if the drive is dead or dying it matters not.

"Restore Disks" can be Windows XP or special recovery software. Older Dells with XP had a full install copy of Windows on a disk that with the Dell bios (i.e. by running on a Dell) could repair or replace XP without losing everything else on the computer. Windows 7 and 8 have built-in capability to repair the operating system to a much higher level, hence problems like this occur much less.

Sometimes a problem manifests itself in a disguise, i.e. a bad drive looks like bad Windows software or vice versa. I had a "memory issue" that wasn't a memory issue at all, just presented itself as one.

Computers have built-in diagnostics that can run and help in the process. That's why I sent him to the manual and to figure out the EXACT MODEL (via Dell Service Tag) that he really owns. Dell Dimension? Dell Inspiron? XPS400? XPS T-400r? XPS...

As Duff noted, a new inexpensive computer is often much better than an old computer. Even an independent shop is likely to charge 1/2 the cost of a new one in my experience. I bought my mother a $299 Lenovo laptop to replace an old desktop that she shared with her companion, he is a nightmare (goes to bad sites, downloads bad things, isn't computer-smart). He's had repeated issues, her computer is fine after one year. Their old computer was almost 3x the cost.

Some words of warning -

- While running antivirus software from leading manufacturers is good, running utilities that "FIX" things is often bad. Modern computers don't need this, and often break because of crappy software that screws up Windows. Don't use registry editors. Don't use any of the other features in Norton or McAfee or similar, other than antivirus, unless you have a freakin' clue what they do.

- If you don't want to lose it, back it up. Twice. To different places. In a mode that you can retrieve them. Stored in a safe place.

- All our data resides on one computer. That computer backs up the data HOURLY to another drive on that computer. That computer is backed up to a standalone drive monthly. The standalone drive is NOT plugged into electricity and NOT plugged into a usb port (or anything else) when it is not backing up. A lightning strike or power surge saps all things.

- I take pictures on a phone or camera. Move them to my PC. Enter the backup strategy above. Every 6 months I copy them to a CD/DVD AND to a picture hard drive. Therefore, sometimes the same picture exists in 4 places. Try losing your wedding pics, your kid's birth, or some other event and seeing if your better half forgives you.

- Any backup should be tested to restore to make sure it works. Any backup should be assumed to NOT work, that's why you do two, and make them via different processes. I'm an expert, been using PCs for over 30 years. I've had restoration issues probably every few years on backups I thought were fine.

- Hard drives die. Sometimes in months, sometimes in years, sometimes many years. But they die. They are replaceable, quite easily, but then you have to rebuild everything or use your backup IF you can restore it. Many backups require disks to restore them, and people often lose them.

[zorak1066]

thanks all..much to mull over. its very old..2005. too tired to do anything today (just got off work a little while ago).

[RickBeer]

I sent some things to try via PM. For a 2005 computer, taking it in and paying is really wasteful as compared to what a new box will get you. But it's likely we'll get it working again.

[Trollby]

The truth is that 8 years on a hard drive is a really long time (server drives are better quality and will last longer).

I bet the Hard drive (HDD) died and you got it to boot once or twice more before total failure, Since it is a 2005 model you might as well send it to the Donation location of your choice (with-out Hard drive)

If your heart is set on reviving it or $$ is too tight to buy a new system then you will need to find out what type of drive it has in it. In 2005 Dell had a mix of IDE and SATA depending on what you bought.

You can get a 500GB SATA HDD for $50, on your system it should have the Microsoft key so any disk from MS that is same OS (XP home, XP PRO, etc) will work.

Do a fresh install BOOM done

[jimjohson]

i don't know rick i knew about the beeps but not the lights. cool, i learned something new.

Dell is really good about putting diagnostic lights on the outside of the case. I have had to support many other computers that didn't have diagnostic lights or had them tucked away on the motherboard that was at of course covered by some of the cables.

RickBeer has got a pretty covered everything I would normally cover although if your system is experiencing BSODs the lights won't always show an issue.

If you are going to go the route of hiring a technician to do it I would suggest finding a local mom and pop computer store in your area that has good reviews if you can. Places like BestBuy routinely get busted for selling unnecessary services and charging for unneeded repairs. And the small shops typically charge less. Depending on what is wrong they may or may not be able to just fix the software issue. If it is a drive that needs replacement restoring from your previous backup shouldn't be an issue although as an IT professional I have to say if you haven't tested your backups there may be nothing there. All too often I have restored from a customers backup only to find it in a not working condition.

Just another suggestion if you are going to pay for service with a computer that old it might be cheaper to buy a new computer. A lot of stores will then copy your data off your previous drive for free or at a discounted rate. A computer you bought this way might not be as fancy as your current one is when you bought it but the modern hardware should outperform your computer as long as you avoid the Celeron processors and whatever the AMD equivalent is. I can't have caffeine today but if my brain ever does start working again and I remember what these are called I'll post again.

see this just prompts another question from me. the last time i had to replace a hard drive (nearly 10 years ago) it came with a program to copy your old hd. has this changed?

[duff]

see this just prompts another question from me. the last time i had to replace a hard drive (nearly 10 years ago) it came with a program to copy your old hd. has this changed?

I believe some drives do come with a program to copy over your old drives but this is becoming less common. But even so if you are having issues booting or running from the disk because it has bad blocks or is failing you may find that none of those copy programs work correctly.

If I need to copy a drive and don't have access to the appropriate drive cloner my preferred tool is xxcopy which is a free download. It has lots of options and runs in a command line. I have yet to find another tool that copies entire drives faster.

[mashani]

see this just prompts another question from me. the last time i had to replace a hard drive (nearly 10 years ago) it came with a program to copy your old hd. has this changed?

I believe some drives do come with a program to copy over your old drives but this is becoming less common. But even so if you are having issues booting or running from the disk because it has bad blocks or is failing you may find that none of those copy programs work correctly.

If I need to copy a drive and don't have access to the appropriate drive cloner my preferred tool is xxcopy which is a free download. It has lots of options and runs in a command line. I have yet to find another tool that copies entire drives faster.

If you buy a RETAIL drive then it most often comes with such software. If you buy an OEM drive then not so much.

Of course you have to get the drive hooked up to something, and if it's an IDE and you buy a new SATA only computer, that can be tricky. There are adapter things that you can use, and external ESATA to IDE converter boxes, but this is all assuming the drive still works in the first place.

[teutonic terror]

Misunderstood the Original Post! Doh!
What I get for skimming!

Have you tried opening the case and removing the CMOS battery?
It looks like a watch battery on the motherboard.
The reason I ask, is because when I was doing a processor and memory upgrade on my Mother-In-Laws computer it would not restart. Fan would start for a second then stop.
If you feel frisky, slide the case off, find the battery, pop it out for five minutes or so, place it back in (make sure the right side is down) and then try to reboot!
Nothing to lose!

One more thing, I had a motherboard go bad that did this same thing.

Good luck!

[RickBeer]

I provided zorak1066 with links to his manuals and the suggestion to start with checking the status lights, listening to the beep codes, and then attempting to run diagnostics. This will narrow things down and determine IF there is any hardware problem.

Assuming no hardware problem is detected, I then suggested he boot to Last Known Good Configuration to see if that remedied the problem.

If it's narrowed down to a Windows error, then the next step would be a Windows repair, provided he has the correct disk on hand. His model allows for a second hard drive, therefore IF the drive is deemed faulty, but is working enough to copy, he can simply install the new drive in the primary bay and the old drive in the secondary bay, a very quick and easy process. That's premature until he goes through the process of elimination.