Hops-Calculated vs. Actual

[Beer-lord]

The last 2 weeks at the gym, I've gone from Floyd, Aerosmith and Zep to craft beer podcasts to catch up a bit. A great part of what I listened to was regarding hops ----yeah, surprising huh?
The semi-bottom line is that mash hopping just isn't worth it and FWH yields more flavor and IBU's though it's very close to the normal 60 minute hops. I heard no talk of Stone's very popular, 90 minute hop additions.
But, for those small craft brewers that had access to a lab, it was extremely obvious that the software tools we use can be waaaaayyyy off on IBU values. In many instances, the calculated IBU's were off as much as 40% in some lab results that checked for actual IBU's.
First, I want to be on the test group that gets to drink these beers and second, if I use the alpha numbers on the hop packets in Beersmith, and there's a chance I can be even 15% off, why can't they do a better job with the software to fix this? Which software is better?

Honestly, I think I can tell as many times I have a pound of hops in my beers and it might give me the same taste (bitter, flavora and aroma) as when I use only 6 oz. But, this is yet one more thing that makes this hobby so much fun and you can do the same recipe over and over and get different results.

[Gymrat]

Just to throw another monkey wrech into your thinking...there is a difference between actual bitterness and percieved bitterness. In other words, two beers can truly have the same IBU but one will be very bitter on the backside where the other will be quite smooth.

[Beer-lord]

And don't rule out how aroma can fool you to thinking there's more there than there really is (yes, I said this!)

[Gman20]

also the humulone and cohumulone levels can make a difference

read somewhere that the bitterness from humulone is smoother than that more harsher bitterness for cohumulone

[John Sand]

Which is why it is an art.
I have a book on the shelf somewhere, subtitled: The Art, Science, and Magic of Sailboat Design.
I feel the same about brewing.

[Crazy Climber]

What I found very interesting was the Basic Brewing Radio podcast a while back where they ran lab tests to determine that, with only a 60-minute hop addition, there seems to be an upper limit of 50 IBU attainable.

The moral of that story seems to be: calculate the IBU contribution from your bittering charge. If it calculates to be greater than 50, then you're probably wasting some hops that would be better utilized (literally and figuratively) in a flavor or aroma addition.

[Beer-lord]

The majority of the podcasts I listened to over the last few weeks have beer Basic Brewing. I like how they are 'regular guys' and keep things simple.

[mashani]

Software or not, we simply do not really know the AAU contribution of the hops we buy because we don't know the age and storage conditions before we got them. What is printed on the package is about what it was when it was packaged. Different varieties of hops degrade at different rates depending on temperature stored and time. Unless they have stayed frozen their entire life including during shipping and at the LHBS, it's not what it says. If I know my hops are older, I will look at hop unions stats on degradation over time for a variety and then take a SWAG at it to try to guess what I'm really going to get, but that's why I don't usually bother measuring hops below more then about 1/4th an ounce - it simply is pointless unless you have a lab and you really know what the exact AA amount in the hops is at the exact moment in time you use them - but pretty much it is NOT what the package says, unless it's really fresh. So I see no need to bother with it, I just make beer and drink it and don't stress about if I get a few more or a few less IBUs.

Another wrench, is that long term stored beers, where the AA IBUs mellow over time, the beta acids - those things we ignore more or less - start to oxidize and contribute a perceived bitterness when they do. So in some styles of beer that can keep an aged beer from getting "too sweet". This is going to happen more with noble hops or their descendants as they tend to have higher beta acid levels. Which is why it's actually best to use more of the traditional kinds of hops for certain styles of beer that will be aged long, vs. trying to shortcut with a modern really high AA/low beta hop so you can use less and save $.

[Crazy Climber]

Nice nugget of info there, mashani, regarding beta acids and perceived bitterness. Thanks for sharing.

You should start your own podcast -- I'd subscribe!