Discussing water

Post by **Beer-lord** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:24 am

Interesting point of view on water and treating it can be found here.

MadBrewer · Post by **MadBrewer** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:38 am

That's a nice informative straight forward article. Water treatment doesn't have to be daunting. I think it's more important to understand water treatment, than the actual water treatment itself. Knowing what you are working with, knowing what you want do, how to do it and knowing what you want out of the beer you are making. Thanks for sharing.

Post by **Beer-lord** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:36 am

I've not gotten very deep in it except that the last few beers are using some voodoo treatment and it seems to be working out well. I think our water is pretty good for most of what I brew (IPA's) but the extra steps have helped the aroma to really shine now and I like it. I also think I can use less hops (but likely won't) due to the treatments.
I've not had my water tested but my local water board is helpful. I do suggest that if someone is interested, they get there's tested. Your beer is mostly water after all!

John Sand · Post by **John Sand** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:18 pm

I like that article too. My next APA or IPA will be my first water adjustment. LI has very clean water, I plan on a teaspoon of gypsum.

MadBrewer · Post by **MadBrewer** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:27 pm

I have been into water for the past couple years of my more serious brewing. I used to play with all the additions and profiles. I built up water from RO, 50/50...etc all with all mixed results. I now just brew with my carbon filtered tap water and make small adjustment for different beers if needed and i adjust mash ph and acidify my sparge water when needed...thats all.

ScrewyBrewer · Post by **ScrewyBrewer** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:36 pm

I'm hooked on water profiles still. Starting with 100% pure RO water and EZwatercalculator I've got matching water recipes for every beer recipe I've brewed over the past year.
For me RO water is the great equalizer if I liked the way an IPA turned out last time I just pull the profile up and make the same additions I used last time.
What I have done though is to increase the additions more. Maltier beers having more calcium chloride and sodium and hoppier beers having more gypsum. I've also been targeting a pH closer to 5.6 for maltier beers and 5.4 for hoppier beers. I guess I'm still having fun playing around with water profiles because it is making a difference in my beer.

Banjo-guy · Post by **Banjo-guy** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:46 am

John Sand wrote:I like that article too. My next APA or IPA will be my first water adjustment. LI has very clean water, I plan on a teaspoon of gypsum.

I wonder if our water profiles are the sameJohn. I'm in Nassau and you are in Suffolk but all of Long Island uses underground aquifers. That water isn't subjected to seasonal (or even yearly fluctuations.)
I've had a couple of Ward Labs water reports last year. I'll post the latest so you can see the numbers. The one thing that sticks out in my memory is that Long Island water is soft. The calcium was pretty low.
The owner at Karps told me that Long Island brewers are all set if brewing stouts. He told me to just add gypsum to adjust for IPAs.
I haven't adjusted my water yet but I have been finding that my all grain IPAs are dull and the hops don't "pop". For that reason I've brewed my last 4-5 brews with distilled water and extract. I plan on getting back to biab but I need to address water additions. I'm playing around with Martin's water spread sheet. I thinks it's called "BruinWater"

John Sand · Post by **John Sand** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:43 am

Thanks. Suffolk County Water posts it's reports online, so I've seen mine. I also find that my IPAs and APAs lack the hop character I seek. They are bitter enough, but lack hop flavor and character. I'm working on it.

ScrewyBrewer · Post by **ScrewyBrewer** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:09 am

John Sand wrote:Thanks. Suffolk County Water posts it's reports online, so I've seen mine. I also find that my IPAs and APAs lack the hop character I seek. They are bitter enough, but lack hop flavor and character. I'm working on it.

Does your water get treated with chlorine or chloramine, I would suspect that as being the leading causes for dull hop aroma, flavor and overall crispness. Adding gypsum alone without removing the chloride or chloramine may not be enough to compensate for the lack of hop pop.

Banjo-guy · Post by **Banjo-guy** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:24 pm

I filter mine through a Brita filter. My water isn't treated with chloramine. My Ward Labs results show no appreciable level of chlorine after being filtered by the Brita filter.

My town report doesn't cover all of the minerals important in brewing so I use Ward Labs.

ScrewyBrewer · Post by **ScrewyBrewer** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:20 pm

Hmmm ruling out chloramine is huge and filtering your water slowly through a carbon block filter and/or leaving it sit uncovered overnight will get rid of chlorine.
Gypsum is a logical addition and reducing calcium chloride too. I'd try aiming for a 5.4 pH and mashing at 149F with just 0.5 lb of Crystal malt.
Pitching with Nottingham or WLP-001 will give a clean fermentation, just typing out loud here.

MadBrewer · Post by **MadBrewer** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:55 am

I would be really interested in seeing your water profiles before commenting on anything. But one thing I highly reccomend is to get a ph meter to check mash ph when adjusting your water. To me, there's no point in adjusting water if I can't check the mash ph. It's probably just a case of soft water that leads to low hop character and gypsum will help the hops pop some. But if you have a high finished beer ph (over 4.5) this can lead to dull tasting beer. Boil ph also affects hop utilization in the boil. So the ph in different steps of the process can tell you a lot. Chlorine/chloromines in the water leads to other off flavors, I never really heard of it lowering hop character.

Post by **Beer-lord** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:47 am

I've looked at some meters but wondered if I needed one since I'm happy with my beers but, there are all kinds of meters many with reviews all over the place.
Care to suggest some decently priced ph meters?

MadBrewer · Post by **MadBrewer** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:23 am

I use and recomend the Hanna Checker. Its around $40 and has replaceable probes for $20. You dont need a precision meter but something decent is nice to have. For a low cost but quality and functional meter the Hanna Checker is one of them. If you are happy with your beers thats fine. A ph meter will simply point out what may or may not need tweaking and you could have even better beer. Mash ph is a very under rated subject. It seems to fall to the side when water adjustment is brought up. It has definitly helped a lot of my beers.

Post by **BlackDuck** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:38 am

How often do you have to replace the probes?