Ward Lab water test

[BlackDuck]

Bru'n Water gives me an "estimated room temperature mash pH", which is the 5.7 number I mentioned above.

Does the amount of lactid acid it's telling me to use (4.9 mL) in the mash sound reasonable for a 5.5 gallon batch with 3.25 gallons used in the mash?

[MadBrewer]

Yeah for that high of Alkalinity that sounds in the ballpark. If you havent already tried it...give EZ water a look over and compare the results. EZ water is very simple it wont hurt to double check.

[Beer-lord]

Another recommended water calculator:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

[BlackDuck]

Beerlord....thanks for the Brewers Friend link. I'll look at that one too.

MadBrewer....I played with EZ Water a bit too. But I couldn't find where to adjust lactic acid at first. I just went back and found where you can add that too, so I'll take another look and compare it with Bru'n Water and Brewers Friend.

Again, thanks for the help.

[MadBrewer]

Does the amount of lactid acid it's telling me to use (4.9 mL) in the mash sound reasonable for a 5.5 gallon batch with 3.25 gallons used in the mash?

Also, if you are ever concerned on how much Lactic acid is too much, 1-2 ml per gallon of beer is the threshold for tasting it. It's the same character that makes a sour beer sour. It can add a tang if overused but it's the easiest way to deal with high alkalinity and bicarbonate.

[mashani]

I'll just mention that the threshold for tasting it (the "tang" as such) will also vary depending on what you are brewing/attenuation levels. If you were to brew a Saison that ferments out 97+% with that much lactic acid you would certainly notice it. Something with more residual malt would cover it up. Something low in hop bitterness, it's less noticeable. Something with high bitterness, you might notice it more. (bitter and sour don't always play nice).

[BlackDuck]

Thanks Mashani....Something else to think about.

Two more questions:
To Mashani's point, Since the cream ale I'm doing has a predicted FG of 1.007 would I be better off increasing the acid malt a touch and decreasing the amount of lactic acid? Would that help decrease the possibility of the acid "tang" at all?

Since my mash pH has been fairly high, I've set my efficiency at 68% in BeerSmith. With the mash pH being adjusted in to the ideal range, is my efficiency going to go up?

Wow....this simple little water test sure did open up a can of worms for me!!!

[MadBrewer]

As far as I understand it Lactic Acid and Acid Malt are doing the same thing and both will contribute the Lactic character if used too much. Thats why I mentioned the 1-2 ml per gal. It could be more could be less and might even vary on personal pallet. But I have been using it for years and never tasted it in my beers. But as Mashini says there are other factors involved.

Your efficiency might bump up slightly but nothing dramatic. Just go your usual route and get the ph in check and see where you come out at. And remember if you dont want to use that much acid you can dillute half your brewing water first but you will still need acid just not as much but then you also lose half your calcium and other flavor factors. You can play around with the dillution in the water calcs.

[BlackDuck]

I did some more reading last night and working at lunch today. I played with the calculator from Brewers Friend and really like it. There's a lot of things you can do with that one and it has really good explanations of each step at the bottom. And that helped me understand the whole picture much better.

So for the cream ale on deck for this weekend, here's the link to what I am planning on going with: Cream Ale Profile

A couple of things to note:
Looking at the section titled Mash Report and Overall Water Report

Mash pH is 5.67. I would call that acceptable.
Everything but the sodium has a green star, which means they are “within recommended generalized brewing range”.
The sodium is “above recommended brewing range, but not harmful”. Not going to worry about that anymore at this point.
It also says the "Total lactic acid as equivalent acidulated malt in grist: 4.6 %". In the explanation it recommends this percentage to be below 5% to avoid any flavor impact from excessive lactate present in the final beer.

Basically I will be changing only a couple of things:
1. Add 3mL lactid acid to the mash water
2. Add 4 ounces acid malt to the grain bill
3. Add 1 gram of calcium chloride to the sparge water

Doesn't seem like a drastic change really. And I think I've got all the comments that have been made here covered.

[ScrewyBrewer]

I just brewed a ten gallon batch of my Hiphopapocalypse IPA on Saturday using RO water with 5ml lactic acid, 17g gypsum, 7g calcium chloride, 6g Epsom salt and 4g baking soda.

My digital pH meter is giving me inconsistent readings, when calibrating it senses the 7.01 calibration solution but shows WRNG with the 4.01 calibration solution. After over a year of use I'm going to order a replacement probe and another case of calibration solution and see if that helps.

I've been using RO water for all my batches and I can almost guesstimate the water addtions needed based on previous batches I've done. But I've become used to having the pH meter confirm them too so Hanna Instruments here I come.

[MadBrewer]

Sounds like you got it under control BlackDuck. Once you get a feel for things its really not that complicated its just something new. Im just curious why the Calcium Chloride in the sparge? You seem to have good Calcium Level and high Sodium and Chloride already. Perhaps a little Acid might be needed in the sparge water and to help get the boil ph about the same as the mash. Your sparge runnings should be kept under 6 ph as well. Post boil ph should drop by about .1 to .2 to end up at around 5.0

Just more things to consider.

[BlackDuck]

I added the Calcium Chloride in the sparge to bring the Ca+2 level in the overall water report into the green. Without it, it reported as low.

[MadBrewer]

I see. Good luck with the brew seems you got it all locked and ready to go.

[BlackDuck]

I see. Good luck with the brew seems you got it all locked and ready to go.

Thanks again for all your help. I'll buy you a beer sometime!!!

[mashani]

I guess I should also mention that say in that hypothetical 97%+ fermented out pale Saison I brought up, even if you notice the lactic acid it doesn't mean it will be bad. Such Saisons are often tart anyways. But you might find that you want to bitter it less aggressively the more lactic acid you use to achieve the balance you want. We are talking more about tweaking here then anything else, I don't mean this as something to be "feared".