Lagering - next steps - advice requested

[RickBeer]

I continue my first adventure into using lager yeast vs. ale yeast. To recap, I brewed two 2 1/2 gallon batches of Oktoberfest, using different hop combinations (thanks Mashani and Swenocha). I rehydrated a full packet of S-34/70 for each, pitched at 58, then fermented at 56.3 (1/2 way in the recommended range of 12 to 15 C, 13.5). OG was 1.062.

At 1 week I took a hydrometer reading and was at 1.015, which should be around 90% of the way (I was out of town for the Memorial Day weekend and missed 75%), so I raised the temp over 24 hours to 65 and have kept it there now for almost 3 days (this afternoon will be 3 days). The samples were both strong in diacetyl, first time I ever tasted it and it was noticeable. I had read different d-rest processes, one at 75% attenuation, one after two weeks.

I see several options in front of me and would like some opinions from those that have done it:

1) Transfer wort to sanitized LBKs (I have nothing else) and crash to 32 for two more weeks, then bottle. Before drinking any, store in bottles in frig for at least 6 weeks (I read you take OG and that's the number of weeks for lagering cold) after at least two weeks at room temp. My concern is in using LBKs for secondaries.

OR

2) Cold crash to 32 in the LBKs (no transfer) for another 10 days for a total of 21 days in the LBKs, then bottle. Before drinking any, store in bottles in frig for at least 6 weeks after at least two weeks at room temp.

OR

3) Assuming I've hit my FG of 1.0105 (supposed to be 83% attenuation with S-34/70), bottle now and store for at least 6 weeks in frig before drinking. My concern in this option is that nothing that's supposed to "escape" is going to escape in a bottle, although it seems people do this in kegs.

If there is another option that I am missing, please let me know.

Final question - am I correct that lagering in bottles can be done at any time once I bottle? In other words, after two weeks bottle conditioning at room temp,I can put all 50 bottles in the frig now for 64 weeks, remove what I'm not going to drink, and then re-refrigerate them when I want to drink them, OR I can keep them in my mid 60s basement, then refrigerate them for 64 weeks WHEN I want to drink them?

I can easily lager the LBKs in my beer fridge for however long they need to be there, but it's only normal fridge temps. If I need 32 then I would use my fermentation fridge, as I have nothing to ferment now or for the foreseeable future, but eventually I will.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Bluejaye]

I‘d go with option #2, but in the mid-40s. Although I've only done 3 lagers so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I'm not exactly sure what your last question is asking. I've bottled and carbed for 2 weeks at room temp, then all the bottles went into the fridge for the rest of their existance. But I don't see why you couldn't take some out after they have "lagered" if you need to make room in your fridge.

[RickBeer]

Appreciate the response. While I have a large beer fridge, I don't have room to lager 50 MORE bottles in it. Right now I have six 12 oz of each of my 12 brews plus 1/2 dozen 33.8 oz, plus a few 16 oz. No room for another 50.

I should have said on the bottling that FIRST I would room condition for 2 weeks, then put them in the frig for 6 weeks. I corrected both.

[JohnSant]

Rick as a newbie I have done 1 lager right after my fermentation chamber build. IAW my notes what I did after my fermentation was to ramp my temp about 2 deg. over 24 hours until I reached my D-REST temp I gave it 72 hour then transferred to a sanitized LBK and finished fermentation after completed fermentation dropped to largering temps with 3 deg. drops in 24 hour (I think I lagered for 4 wks) . My Vienna Lager seem to come out alright but I'm no expert. I'm sure someone on the Borg will be able to help you out. All the best to you and your beer.

[RickBeer]

Thanks for your input John!

[BlackDuck]

I would go with option 2. If you think fermentation is complete, then that's the best option. I know you know this, but just be sure fermentation is complete. I think racking too many times just gives the opportunity to oxygenate the beer. And since they are small batches, there's really no worries about it sitting on the yeast cake. And you may not even need to cold crash for 10 days, 3 or 4 may do the trick.

The last lager I did, I missed the 75% mark like you did. In fact, I was at FG when I did the d-rest. After the 3 day d-rest, I crashed for 4 days then bottled. Carbed/conditioned as normal, then into the fridge. It turned out pretty good!!!

Also, I don't think you need to do all this at 32 degrees, normal fridge temps (which are usually 35 - 38 degrees??) will be sufficient for both the cold crash and the long term lagering. After your normal bottle carbing/conditioning time at room temps (whether that's two weeks or three), put them in the fridge at normal fridge temps for the rest of their lives.

One thing that did surprise me though is the comment that you were getting strong diacetyl after the d-rest. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

[RickBeer]

Strong diacetyl was BEFORE the d-rest, it was the hydrometer samples. Have not yet tasted it today.

[BlackDuck]

Got it....I think you're good then!!! I'll be interested in your perception of the sample now that it's been through the D-rest and how much it (hopefully) has changed.

[RickBeer]

Went from 1.015 to 1.014 since Monday. Still some diacetyl flavor. I just sent the temp to return to 56.3, figure give it a few more days and then lower it some more. And hope that the remaining diacetyl goes away either then or during lagering in bottles.

[philm00x]

I've only ever done a lager once before, and what I did was prime and bottle after fermentation was complete (d-rest and all) and let it sit at room temp for 2 weeks, then threw them into the fridge to lager at at 55F then come down to 35 over the course of a week and then lager over the time it took to consume all the beer. I've done a steam beer method as well where it's pretty much the same process but fermentation goes at 60-62 until FG is reached. Since fermentation is warmer, it's finished faster than a real lager and doesn't typically require a D-rest because the temperature is warm enough for the yeast to clean up diacetyl during fermentation.

[Kealia]

FWIW, I would have raised the temp by a few more degrees (68) and let the D-rest go for a full week since you were late in starting it. Just to give the yeast more time to clean that up. From there, I would slowly drop the temp by a few degrees each day until you reach cold crash temps. After that, I would bottle, carb for at least 2 weeks as you've noted, then put as many in the fridge as possible to start lagering.

When I drink one, replace that bottle with a new one that is hanging out at room temp or wherever you are cellaring them.

Sincerely,
Late to the Discussion

[mashani]

FWIW. I only make lagers in the winter, but when I do, once I start the D-Rest, I leave it at the warm temperature (mid 60s) until the D is gone and also until it's fully fermented out. I then bottle it, and let it prime at room temp for 2 weeks. Then I lager in the bottles. I don't do anything in a secondary, and I don't lower the temps after some arbitrary # of days of D-Rest to let it finish fermenting cold, hoping that any remaining D goes away.

It works for me.

[Kealia]

I don't lower the temps after some arbitrary # of days of D-Rest to let it finish fermenting cold, hoping that any remaining D goes away.

Nope, me either. The drop in temp I mentioned was to cold crash and clear it up. I've also heard MANY time from very good sources that a quick drop in temps can cause the yeast to basically puke back out anything they took in which is why I tend to drop my temps slowly - especially on lagers.

[RickBeer]

Interesting feedback. I've been at 55 since Friday, and am at 2 weeks and a day. Sounds like at this point I should slowly raise to 68 and leave it for a good week, then if I want to cold crash I need to take another week to get to get to cold crash temps, like 4 degrees a day. Or skip cold crash.

I took a stab at a schedule, not perfect, but... If I skip a cold crash, it makes it much simpler.

6/2 - 58
6/3 - 63
6/4 through 6/8 - 68
6/9 - 64
6/10 - 60
6/11 - 56
6/12 - 52
6/13 - 48
6/14 - 44
6/15 - 40 4 weeks
6/16 - 36 => bottle this day or on 6/17

Thanks for the advice.

I definitely need to brew one of these hops combinations with S-05 and see if all this effort with lager yeast is worth it.

[Dawg LB Steve]

FWIW I did an Oktoberfetiv-Ale, pretty sure with Notty, put it side by side with SA Oktoberfest could not tell the difference.