Yeast starter advice, please.

[TheCanfield]

So the yeast I am getting ready to use has a best before date of Apr 2014 so I decided to do a starter with a flask and a homemade stir plate.
I looked up a procedure and found directions on whitelabs.com. http://www.whitelabs.com/resources/home ... arter-tips Following their directions I made a wort with 4 cups water and 1/2 cup DME pitched my yeast and flipped on the stir plate! Fast forward one day and I look around at others results to see if I should be able to see a visible difference. I stumble upon a multitude of people stating that the wort is comprised of 2 cups water to 1/2 cup DME. Now I'm wondering if the ratio I did is sufficient or if I should pour off the wort and do a new starter. Any ideas?

[bpgreen]

I think you're probably ok. From what I've read, you want a 10:1 ratio by weight.

I'm going to be bouncing around in my units of measure, so I hope I don't get too confusing.

I think 3 cups of dme weighs about a pound. So 1/2 cup would be about 1/6 lb. That works out to about 76 grams. So you'd want 760 grams (or 760 ml) of water. That's just under 3.25 cups.

So you're probably a little thin, but not too bad.

[Kealia]

Whoa, that's old yeast! You are going to need to step that up a few times to get anywhere near the right pitch rate. I typically go by weight (grams to milliliters of water) but from what I can see your ratio of 4 cups of water to 1/2 cup DME looks right.
With as many times as you'll need to step this up you'd be money ahead to just buy a new vial, though.

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[Inkleg]

Leave it, I'll do the math here in a minute.
With yeast that old it's always best to do a step starter. Yeast that old will benefit from a lower gravity starter to begin with. I'd just let it sit there and spin for at least 5-7 days (I've done this before or at least read it on the internet ). After a week, toss it in the fridge for a few days to allow the yeast to drop out of suspension. From there make another starter with a gravity reading in the 1.037-.040 range, decant most of the liquid from the other starter, add the yeast and spin it up again. Try to keep the temperature of the decanted yeast and new starter within 10 degrees.
Oh, and starters decant best right out of the fridge. From there I just leave them covered on the counter while I'm making and cooling the next starter.

[Inkleg]

Like BP mentioned, I do starters in metric, math is just easier. 100 grams per 1 liter will make around 1.040 wort. 1800mL use 180 grams, 2200mL use 220 grams, yep that easy.

[Inkleg]

WOW, that search hurt, everything is in metric, but the best I can tell you made a starter in the 1.020 range. Perfect for yeast that old.
Options, let it spin or start with fresher yeast. If you use this yeast it will be awhile building it up till you have enough cells to ferment out a batch, so plan accordingly. I have brought 18 month old yeast back and made great beer with it.

Like I mentioned, it will be many days before you see any activity in the flask, don't sweat it. From there, each will start quicker.

[Kealia]

And for what it is worth, here is a link to a yeast starter calculator that put things into perspective. It should be straight forward to plug in the numbers but if you have questions, ask away.

There are many similar calculators put there, this is just the one that works on my tablet.


http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitc ... alculator/

[bpgreen]

And for what it is worth, here is a link to a yeast starter calculator that put things into perspective. It should be straight forward to plug in the numbers but if you have questions, ask away.

There are many similar calculators put there, this is just the one that works on my tablet.

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I think you forgot the link.

[Kealia]

Fixed, thanks Brian.

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[HerbMeowing]

Ditch the DME @$4# and save some serious starter wort money.
Instead ... save the pre- and post-boil wort samples supplemented by extra runnings.

At least a two week shelf-life when stored in the fridge.
For-evah in the freezer.

[mashani]

save the pre- and post-boil wort samples supplemented by extra runnings.
At least a two week shelf-life when stored in the fridge.
For-evah in the freezer.

I've made a bunch of pre-mashed wort this year for use in future batches. Not for starters, but same principle.

Some I had frozen for 6 months. Some I had in the fridge for 6 weeks. All of it was fine/worked great.

I did bring it to a boil and then chill before storing it. In the fridge, that might matter as far as shelf life (Having it go slightly sour would be the issue if it happened. But it never happened to me. In once case I was kind of hoping it would. Oh well).

That said, I would bring it back to a boil in my flask and chill it again if I was going to use it for a starter. I'm paranoid about starters in my house.

[HerbMeowing]

... bring it back to a boil in my flask and chill it again if I was going to use it for a starter.

Absolutely.
The starter wort in my brew closet gets a 3' boil and a chill before pitching yeast.
No reason to take any chances on any segment of the process.

The 3rd-runnings gravity tends to be a little low for 1-L of starter wort which is why it's supplemented with the pre- and post-boil hydro-samples.

[TheCanfield]

So... I let the stir plate run for a couple days with the first wort (4 cups water, 1/2 cup DME) then I placed it in the fridge for a couple days, Decanted and thew it back on the stir plate for a couple more days with new wort (2 cups water, 1/2 cup DME), put it back in the fridge.
So... Should I be able to see a change in quantity at all? Should I be OK to pitch now?
All input is greatly appreciated.

[Inkleg]

You should see something like this. The lighter solid line color on the bottom is yeast.



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[TheCanfield]

Yep, I see that, it just doesn't seem like much more than I started with. I just wasn't sure if I should see more. I have about the same that you do so that makes me feel better. Im going to try and get this brew started this weekend.
Thanks for all the help!