PH chart

[Beer-lord]

Anyone know of a decent chart that might show the lows & highs of each beer style?
When I do my pales, I have been keeping them close to 5.5 and that's worked out pretty well. Most of the water calculators show a 5.4-5.6 range for pales. But, I wonder if I should go lower.
I've searched and have not found any type of chart that shows suggested levels for beer styles. I find Beersmith useless as it seems they want 5.2 to 5.3 on almost all my recipes and I know this is not correct. A look on their forum says PH will be in a future update so they obviously know the settings are incorrect in the software.

Now that I'm experimenting with 100% RO, I want to be sure I'm in the ballpark.

[Dawg LB Steve]

Don't know of a chart right off, but had the brewer at a local place here tell us he keeps his light colored beers closer to 5.2 in the mash and darker closer to 5.4 in the mash.

[mashani]

FWIW, the "dark grain cold steep / late boil addition" method that I used in my stout like beer is something that you are supposed to be able to do to avoid the issues of PH causing harsh flavors with dark grains without having to worry about it in even in an AG beer. (the method was specifically described in the book as pertaining to AG). You just mash everything else, treat it just like any beer you make, and target your boil volume so the addition of the volume of the steeped dark grains brings you up to where you want to end up as far as final volume with the remaining boil off (~10 minutes worth, so not much).

[Beer-lord]

I've read lighter beers at 5.4-5.5 and darker beers no higher than 5.6.
I should have gone lower yesterday at was at 5.5 which isn't bad but I'll shoot lower next time. All the water calculators I used seemed to lead me to 5.5. That's what I get for taking their word for it.

[HerbMeowing]

When I do my pales, I have been keeping them close to 5.5 and that's worked out pretty well. [...]
I find Beersmith useless as it seems they want 5.2 to 5.3 on almost all my recipes and I know this is not correct.

For recipes with relatively low SRMs ... 5.2 pH target FTW!

Bru'n Water agrees.
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-Wat ... 1136933908

[Beer-lord]

That seems kind of low from what I've been reading. I'll try a few different batches over the next few months and see how that works out. In reality, whatever I make will still be good beer but if I can make them even better just by a slight water adjustment, I will.
But a question I'd then have is, why do all the mash calculators I've been playing with point to 5.4-5.5 for the recipe I put in?
This is why I'm going crazy with the simplest things.

[Dawg LB Steve]

Another thing to keep in mind for mash Ph, even though it doesn't work as advertised, 5.2 Stabilizer. Just a thought.

[Beer-lord]

I used 5.2 for years but it wasn't good for half the beers I brew. Seemed to work well with darker beers. Now that I'm using RO, maybe I should try some again.
Many experienced brewers have poo-poo'd 5.2 lately.



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[mashani]

I don't know why anyone who builds their own water profiles would want to use 5.2 stabilizer...

[Dawg LB Steve]

Nah don't use it Paul, if you have to adjust the Ph down you can use Acidulated malt or Lactic Acid. I use Lactic acid myself. The Beersmith part of the mash that tells you mash Ph is an estimated what to shoot for for the style I believe. I put my grist, water profile, and salt adjustments and water volumes into Brewers Friend water calculator and open the Acid Addition for any acid adjustment check Acid Added To Mash only box (this is where the acid can be added in if needed to reach desired Ph) and under that section shows you est mash Ph in the Mash Report section. Building your own water backwards, this to me seems like it is the most user friendly water calculator.

[BlackDuck]

I adjust my Ph down with Lactic Acid also.

[Beer-lord]

I have used lactic acid WITH gypsum, epson and calcium and was afraid to use just lactic acid itself. I have lots of it and might as well use it. But I figured I would only use it once I already have used the salts to tweak it a bit.
Plus, I use BIAB so it is pretty easy to tweak when needed.
On first use of RO, even though it was not my normal 6 gallon brew and even though I had to do a tea bag dunk because of the size of the recipe, the water numbers were spot on with EZ water and Bru'n water. I just felt that 5.5 was not low enough for this recipe though they both showed that number (or extremely close to it).
I'll have this down pretty well after the next 2, regular brew days.

[BlackDuck]

I have used lactic acid WITH gypsum, epson and calcium and was afraid to use just lactic acid itself

Your recipe and original water profile should dictate what minerals you'll need to add. So don't be afraid to use just lactic acid if the water calculator tells you that's the only thing you need to add to get to the profile you're looking for.

[Beer-lord]

But that's the thing. I can get there with just the salts, just the lactic acid or a mixture of both. If, after 10 minutes or so of mashing I need to go lower, I add the acid. This week it was spot on so I left it out.
But, I've never used just acid but it does seem simpler except if you're not careful, its easier to go way overboard.
I'm getting there------on batch at a time.

[HerbMeowing]

From Bru'n Water:
"SPECIAL NOTE: Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is indicated by its manufacturer to "lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your water". Evidence by homebrewers indicates that this product does not produce a mash pH in the preferred room-temperature range of 5.3 to 5.5. That evidence shows this product does produce some pH moderation in waters with high Residual Alkalinity. But, the mash pH tends to center around 5.8 (room-temperature measurement). While 5.8 pH is acceptable, it is at the upper end of the desirable range. The evidence also shows that in waters with low Residual Alkalinity, this product shows no effect on pH. Since Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is a compound with high sodium content, its use will elevate the sodium concentration in the brewing water. High sodium content is undesirable from a taste standpoint in beer. Proper acidification of mashing and sparging water will produce more acceptable brewing results for most brewers than the use of 5.2 Stabilizer.