Pomegranate Blackberry Berliner Weisse

Post by **BlackDuck** » Thu May 25, 2017 1:54 pm

I'm planning on doing the Berliner Weisse that many of us talked about on the other sour thread. I'll do the mash on Friday, then watch the pH over the holiday weekend and when it drops to the 3.3 to 3.7 range, I'll proceed with the boil. I'm using the Pomegranate Blackberry GoodBelly probiotic drink to do the souring. We'll see how it goes. Here's the recipe:

Recipe: Berliner Weiss
Brewer: Antler Brewing
Style: Berliner Weisse
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 9.14 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.30 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.032 SG
Estimated Color: 2.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 4.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.2 %
Boil Time: 110 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
4.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
2.50 ml Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
2.00 g Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
2.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 5 -
8.0 oz Rice Hulls (Briess) (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 6 6.9 %
4 lbs 12.0 oz Pilsner Malt (Avangard) (1.7 SRM) Grain 7 65.5 %
2 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 8 27.6 %
0.50 oz Hallertauer [3.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 4.8 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 10 -

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 7 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 2.50 gal of water at 162.6 F 150.0 F 75 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 7.51 gal water at 170.0 F
Notes:
------
Need to make water profile balanced towards the malt side.
Mash and sparge as normal.
Boil for 20 minutes.
Lower temp to appx 120 and pitch one carton of GoodBelly.
Target final pH for 3.3 to 3.7, then proceed as normal with 90 minute boil

100% Distilled Water

Water Profile:
Ca - 55
Mg - 10
Na - 14
Cl - 76
SO4 - 71
Chloride/Sulfate Ratio - 1.08 Balanced

Post by **Beer-lord** » Thu May 25, 2017 1:58 pm

I know nothing about sours but am curious why a low gravity beer needs 2 packs of yeast. Is it because the low ph hinders yeast growth?
Though I can't see myself doing this, I am very interested in this because I know so little. Please continue to share your thoughts and process.

Post by **BlackDuck** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:17 pm

It's because of the low pH. At least that's what I've read!!!

Dawg LB Steve · Post by **Dawg LB Steve** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:42 pm

Acidic worts or washes need a big pitch or pitched to a previous yeast cake. When I did my hard lemonade, I dumped the organic lemonade directly to my Apple Cider yeast cake, with a bit of yeast nutrient and it took off.

Kealia · Post by **Kealia** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:11 pm

This sounds really good and I'm watching this closely, Chris.

My wife (and I) like Berliner Weisse beers and this sounds like a great summer drinker.

Post by **BlackDuck** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:20 pm

I'll be sure to keep the thread updated. And it should be a fairly quick turning beer. Other than the few days it takes to sour, once this one is done fermenting, it'll get crashed and kegged. I see no reason to let this one "condition" as there really isn't much of anything in it. Unless someone has information on why I should let condition of course.

Kealia · Post by **Kealia** » Thu May 25, 2017 4:51 pm

<cues a lengthy explanation by mashani....>

And I mean that in good fun - I find his posts full of great information and knowledge.

Inkleg · Post by **Inkleg** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:27 pm

Looks good Chris. Guess I need to experiment on ways to keep wort warm too so I can give this a whirl.
It's not in your notes, but I assume that you are going to flush the wort with CO2 and put plastic wrap down on top of it to keep oxygen away? This helps keeps acetobacter at bay and allows your Goodbelly to do its thing while it's souring.

Post by **BlackDuck** » Thu May 25, 2017 6:12 pm

My kettle will be quite full, so I'm going to flush with C02 and put the lid on. Then it's getting wrapped in two blankets to keep the warmth good. I'm going to skip the plastic wrap layer on top.

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mashani · Post by **mashani** » Thu May 25, 2017 6:26 pm

Kealia wrote:<cues a lengthy explanation by mashani....>

I think the reason in this particular case/methodology was answered.

So, I'll just add that if you co-ferment (true sour, IE sacc + live sour bugs in the fermenter or using a Berliner blended strain, not kettle sour with just lacto and then then kill them dead like a 'Merican), you don't need (or want!) to pitch so much sacc, because the sacc gets involved faster then the lacto, so it will do it's fermentation bit for a day or so before the lacto gets involved and starts to stunt it's style. That headstart is plenty and all it needs, it does a lot of damage before the sour bugs get involved.

You just want to mash that type of co-fermented beer a bit warmer, so the bugs have enough leftover to eat. Otherwise you won't get as much sour.

If using a Berliner blend, the type of lacto they choose works fine at warmer end normal ale temperatures, it's not so finicky like some of the pure pitch lacto strains, or the goodbelly stuff which is meant for human body temps.

It's just a bit more wild and unpredictable when you do it that way... but that's half the fun.

Basically kettle souring is "doing it backwards" vs. the more traditional co-fermented method. And then killing the bugs. Because they are scary.

Dawg LB Steve · Post by **Dawg LB Steve** » Fri May 26, 2017 6:55 am

Meh 120-121 whatever it takes.

I will be following this also since this sounds like the easiest way to do a sour and not have it affect equipment. Didn't Swen do a Goodbelly sour or was that just a discussion in Asheville?

Post by **BlackDuck** » Fri May 26, 2017 6:57 pm

I think Swen did do a Goodbelly sour, but I don't remember him posting anything about it. Hope it didn't taste like poop.

I got mine started today. Went through the mash and sparge just fine. Hit all my numbers almost on the nose. Pitched the entire quart of Goodbelly at 112.5F. I flushed the top real good with C02, put the lid on and wrapped it nice and tight with two heavy blankets. I'll check the the pH probably twice a day until it hits around 3.5 or so then get to boiling. I hope that happens between now and Monday.

Inkleg · Post by **Inkleg** » Fri May 26, 2017 10:35 pm

Post by **BlackDuck** » Sat May 27, 2017 1:05 pm

Just checked the pH, it's was 3.37, which completely surprised me. Wasn't expecting it to drop that quick. So I stirred the wort and rechecked, it was 3.43. It tasted tart, but not as tart as I was expecting. I guess it's on to the boil and get this finished up.

Edit...finished up with the boil, OG came in at 1.032, right on the button. Into the fermenting fridge it goes.

Post by **BlackDuck** » Mon May 29, 2017 5:21 pm

Since I'm impatient and my BrewBucket has a spigot on it, I just had to take a sample taster mid fermentation. I was surprised to find the tartness was definitely there, but not overpowering at all. There was a nice light flavor and aroma from the blackberry/pomegranate GoodBelly. I have high hopes for this, fingers crossed it finishes OK

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