BeerBorg

Beer-lord wrote:Timing is everything! Here's some interesting and possibly related material:
http://brulosophy.com/2017/07/24/water- ... t-results/

Paul, check this link out...it's a good, and interesting tie in to the Brulosophy article you posted.

HANNA pH & Temperature in Beer

ScrewyBrewer wrote:

Beer-lord wrote:Timing is everything! Here's some interesting and possibly related material:
http://brulosophy.com/2017/07/24/water- ... t-results/

Paul, check this link out...it's a good, and interesting tie in to the Brulosophy article you posted.

HANNA pH & Temperature in Beer

That brulosophy article is interesting... I can say I've never tried to mash that high of a PH on purpose.

I wonder if they threw in some other types of malts if they would notice it. IE darker crystal malts, more highly kilned malts.

Also astringency from tannins isn't a "taste" really. It is more like a "threshold" where other things become more noticeable and annoying... IE you hops seem too be more bitter/harsh, flavors seem wack, etc. So that would also be affected by how bitter your beer is / BU:GU ratio, yada yada. Just thinking a less simple beer might show greater differences.

Here's where I am with my latest brew---1 week in and it's reached FG. I'm still going to let it ride another 5-7 before adding dry hops but I tasted it today and it has no off flavors at all. Pretty good actually. So, I'll dry hop next week then taste before I keg and see if the dry hopping caused any weirdness. Then, if good but after kegging it turns strange, then I'll have to look at something like bad C02 or something else.
I can say that the odd flavor is waning on the other beers. So, that's a good sign though who knows if they'll ever be gone by the time the beer is.

Beer-lord wrote:Here's where I am with my latest brew---1 week in and it's reached FG. I'm still going to let it ride another 5-7 before adding dry hops but I tasted it today and it has no off flavors at all. Pretty good actually. So, I'll dry hop next week then taste before I keg and see if the dry hopping caused any weirdness. Then, if good but after kegging it turns strange, then I'll have to look at something like bad C02 or something else.
I can say that the odd flavor is waning on the other beers. So, that's a good sign though who knows if they'll ever be gone by the time the beer is.

So far so good...so what were the changes with this batch?

First, I used Iodopher in place of Star San as I've read that it's a good idea for Star San users to use Iodopher every month or so as it kills things Star San doesn't. But, I am very clean and doubt sanitation is the problem.
I used lactic acid in place of some gypsum and calcium chloride, I didn't add aerate with oxygen. I use my pump to fill my fermenter and use a tight strainer to catch the junk and it does a good job of aeration as does stirring while chilling.
I also only did a 10 minute hop stand instead of 30.
Actually, I should try these things one at a time as I may never know the answer but I wanted some better beer.

I'm sure it has to be frustrating trying to figure out which of the brewing steps is at fault. But this much I can tell you.

Since switching to StarSan, from One-Step 6 years ago, I have never used anything other than StarSan and haven't had an issue with off flavors. In fact my plastic Ale Pails are also 6 years old, they have a permanent aroma when dry, but a Kolsch still tastes like a Kolsch even after brewing IPAs and Stouts in them.

I never had any issues with bad Co2 causing off flavors. Not to stray off topic but I'm not to sure I ever heard of anyone having off flavors related to Co2.

I whirlpool hops after flameout for 20-30 minutes and that doesn't cause off flavors either.

It could be the hops you used, maybe they had a flaw? Either way I hope this issue goes away as fast as came on.

I hopstand hops 20-30 minutes *all the time* without issue too, but I think Beer Lord is using some new variety hops, and it's possible that tannins can be extracted (not just possible they are, it's jut a matter of how much). Some hop varieties have 2x as many tannins by weight then others (they typically range anywhere from 2.5 to 5% I think). I think he's just trying to rule that out. But dry hopping is going to bring them out too, so that's where that gets tricky. But the tannins from hops normally aren't enough to be bothersome, you'd have to use a lot of hops (but we are talking about Beer Lord here)... that said even so, you'd probably also have to have something else going on too, and the hops just put it over the edge as far as the perception threshold.

I've heard of people using mini injectors who tried using paint ball CO2 vs. food grade CO2 cartridges having trouble/weirdness, but I don't know how that would apply to large CO2 tanks that you refill.

An update on my odd taste in my latest beer: Kegged this yesterday and it's no where near carbed yet but a taste test today shows it seems fine. I think I'll know for sure in a few more days but as I've done so many things in that beer from start to finish, it's impossible to know what made the difference but my belief is that it's due to my water additions though I felt they were pretty much ok in the past. I did cut back on gypsum, Calc Chloride and Epsom and increased lactic acid but WTF knows?
Another brew day tomorrow to see if I can go 2 for 2.
Once again, thanks for all the comments, suggestions and thoughts on this. I guess this is what keeps this hobby exciting.

Another update on my water challenge from the past. This past week I went back to my first RO filter as I think I noticed this problem after getting a new one (new filters cost almost as much as a new system). I'll know in a few more weeks if the new one is the problem but I reached out to the company and he said sometimes the 4th stage causes what I'm describing so they are sending me a carbon filter for the 4th stage to try. It'll be a while before I know but I am very curious.

The last few beers have been very much better so maybe it's just taken longer for this new unit to work but I feel better that what I described was immediately understood by the RO filter company.

Will the new filter they send you be wrapped in black tape?

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Kealia wrote:Will the new filter they send you be wrapped in black tape?

No, but maybe silicone!

Inkleg wrote:

Kealia wrote:Will the new filter they send you be wrapped in black tape?

Beer-lord wrote:Another update on my water challenge from the past. This past week I went back to my first RO filter as I think I noticed this problem after getting a new one (new filters cost almost as much as a new system). I'll know in a few more weeks if the new one is the problem but I reached out to the company and he said sometimes the 4th stage causes what I'm describing so they are sending me a carbon filter for the 4th stage to try. It'll be a while before I know but I am very curious.

The last few beers have been very much better so maybe it's just taken longer for this new unit to work but I feel better that what I described was immediately understood by the RO filter company.

Ugh, can't believe you're still having an issue with off flavors. I may have asked before but, how bad is your source water? Is it high in alkalinity and minerals? I hope you get this figured out soon.

Vince, my last few batches have been very much better. Only I seem to notice it and after a few weeks in the keg, it's gone. My source water is pretty good. Before RO, other than my beers being somewhat muted, it worked well with some 'seasoning'. My Black IPA is very good and I think I've pretty much worked it out but I am thinking that if I don't get a solid answer, my lighter beers will suffer.
I've learned alot lately, from you and others and have read tons on the subject. What I describe is out there and seems to be related to users of RO. Its possible my source water has changed with the season but only one beer was not enjoyable. One other was mediocre and finished and the last 3 are almost there.

And to those who make fun of my tape.........tapapocolypse is coming!