Water gods, please opine.

[Beer-lord]

Since moving to all RO water, there's no doubt that my beer has improved. But, they are all tasting pretty much the same. Granted, I do a lot of similar type pales and IPA's but lately, as I play with lots of water calculators (yes, I CANNOT LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE!!!!!) But I rarely used lactic acid and I think that even though I have my ph pretty well dead on, I'm getting a slight metallic and possibly (I'm going to say it) too bitter hit in my beers that seem to take away from some of the flavor. The aroma however, has been off the charts great!!!
So, I'm thinking of reducing the gypsum and other salts and starting with some lactic acid to give me most of what I need vs. acidic malts which I'd rather not use.
I've also thought about using 50% tap and 50% RO just to see how it works out. I can say when I brew stouts and black IPA's, my tap water is very good but since I have a very good RO filter, why not start with a blank slate?

[BlackDuck]

If your using EZwater, check the sulfide/chloride ratio at the bottom. Adjust your additives so that is in the balanced range, or even the malty range for your next recipe and see what that does. Maybe your ratio is off and it has been in the bitter range???


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[Beer-lord]

But I've been doing that for almost a year. I've pretty much gone with balanced throughout except for 2 'hoppy' versions. Again, the aroma is off the charts. The taste is pretty good but not medal winning IMO.
I do love playing the game though!

[BlackDuck]

Ok. That was just an idea. Wasn't sure if you were adjusting for that ratio or not. Hmmm. Not sure what's going on.


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[mashani]

But I rarely used lactic acid and I think that even though I have my ph pretty well dead on, I'm getting a slight metallic and possibly (I'm going to say it) too bitter hit in my beers that seem to take away from some of the flavor. The aroma however, has been off the charts great!!!
So, I'm thinking of reducing the gypsum and other salts and starting with some lactic acid to give me most of what I need vs. acidic malts which I'd rather not use.

Reducing the gypsum and adjusting PH with lactic acid might give you what you want.

But authentic acidulated malts are simply malts that have been partially lacto fermented, and then shut down once they hit a specified amount (varies by manufacturer, but they have specs so you can adjust as you wish)... so they are just giving you lactic acid too. So why not use them? Just curious?

I'll also just throw out that maybe you should ditch the traditional bittering addition, which I don't really think you need with the crap ton of late hops you add. I have done that for such beers and never looked back, I just do a hopstand to get my extra IBUs. That takes the edge off the bitter bite, but still leave me with a fully balanced beer that lets the hops flavors and aromas really shine. At least IMHO.

[ScrewyBrewer]

Since moving to all RO water, there's no doubt that my beer has improved. But, they are all tasting pretty much the same. Granted, I do a lot of similar type pales and IPA's but lately, as I play with lots of water calculators (yes, I CANNOT LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE!!!!!) But I rarely used lactic acid and I think that even though I have my ph pretty well dead on, I'm getting a slight metallic and possibly (I'm going to say it) too bitter hit in my beers that seem to take away from some of the flavor. The aroma however, has been off the charts great!!!
So, I'm thinking of reducing the gypsum and other salts and starting with some lactic acid to give me most of what I need vs. acidic malts which I'd rather not use.
I've also thought about using 50% tap and 50% RO just to see how it works out. I can say when I brew stouts and black IPA's, my tap water is very good but since I have a very good RO filter, why not start with a blank slate?

I brew with 100% RO water all the time, here are a some general guidelines I use that might help you too when using 100% RO water.

Regarding pH and beer styles: Target pH 5.4 to 5.6 for darker beers, pH 5.3 to 5.4 for lighter beers and pH 5.2 to 5.3 for crisper beers.

Regarding sparge water: Use straight 100% RO water for sparging. The reason is the mash has plenty of alkalinity (think pH buffering) to prevent pH swings when sparging.

Today I'm brewing an American Porter using 100% RO water. I made up 15 gallons last night, 12 gallons will be treated to use in the mash, the remaining 3 gallons will be set aside untreated to use for sparging. The target for this beer will be pH 5.45 @ 77F. For this I enter 12 gallons for strike water to be used in the mash, giving a 2.29 qt/lb mash thickness.

If you care to share your water profile and grain bill we can dig in a little deeper.

[Inkleg]

The taste is pretty good but not medal winning IMO.

You might be wrong. You should enter something in a competition and find out.

[Beer-lord]

Thanks for all the replies.
@mashani-no real reason not to use acid malt other than I'll have just another malt hanging around. I know it doesn't take much. Guess I should experiment with it in the future. And a few of the last brews I did had either no bittering addition or very little. What I'm getting seems more ph related to me than a hop bite. I'm 95% sure it's not the hops though I know getting a better ph will make the hops really pop.
@screwy-I do BIAB with no sparge so all the water is treated at once. And, if my meter is accurate and I do think it is, I've always been in the ranges you mention. I think one thing I need to look at is just what my ph of my RO water is and make sure the calculator I'm using is matching that. I'm not sure how close it has been.
@ink-I keep saying I will but never do. How do you think they'll take to the tape around the cap? Knock me for points?

[ScrewyBrewer]

Thanks for all the replies.

@screwy-I do BIAB with no sparge so all the water is treated at once. And, if my meter is accurate and I do think it is, I've always been in the ranges you mention. I think one thing I need to look at is just what my ph of my RO water is and make sure the calculator I'm using is matching that. I'm not sure how close it has been.

A good RO filter will remove 97 to 99% of minerals and alkalinity from your source water, whether it be tap, bottled or well water. The filter I have has a TDS meter built in that measures total dissolved solids, on the source water coming in or the RO water coming out. Right now it reads 004 on the RO side, indicating the source water coming in is pretty clean.

I enter 0 for every salt and mineral and 0 for alkalinity and bicarbonate, for pH I enter 7. At most the difference would only be .0001234 or something in that area, because I doubt any water is exactly 100% pure.

[Beer-lord]

My TDS meter have never been above 008 and normally is 000 or 001. I think my ph out of RO is 7.4 but I've made notes to check for next weekends brew day and will definitely make some changes to your calculator.
I'm still not sure why there's such a difference between your calculator and Bru'n Water though yours has been pretty much spot on.

[ScrewyBrewer]

I'm still not sure why there's such a difference between your calculator and Bru'n Water though yours has been pretty much spot on.

Wait for my next version ezRecipe-RO© I think you will like it a lot. I redesigned the entire calculator to eliminate the need of fussing with DI pH values for each grain type. The user interface is completely new and now includes hop additions too. Stay tuned....remember you heard it here first.

[Beer-lord]

Teaser!
I greatly look forward to it.

[Beer-lord]

Did a lot more reading but still can't be sure the cause but some of what I read may be part of what I'm getting from some of my beers. The last 3 kegs I've carbed I've done a flash carb where I set my PSI to 30-35 for the first 24 hours. Since my beer is already at 33 when I keg due to crashing, it obviously carbs faster when I put it back in the keezer at 33. My most recent beer I tasted before I kegged and got only a slight bit of the same somewhat tangy metallic and it's possible due to not so good ph balance, added to the over carbing (even though my beers don't feel like they are overcarbed) is creating what they call, carbonic bite.

So next beer, besides better ph correction, I'll go back to the slow and steady rate of 12 psi to carb and see where that takes me.

[mashani]

FWIW, the "bite" from the carbonic acid that is produced when the bubbles go into your mouth is actually a desirable trait in some kinds of beer, IE low bitterness Belgian beers for example, as it actually helps to balance them and make them seem more bitter/balanced and refreshing then they would just due to the hops. IE say Duval, it would not taste the same at all without all that carb.

That's why many types of Belgians are carbed so highly - often much higher then BJCP's so called Belgian guidelines state.

But I can see how it could be bad in a beer that is already quite bitter.

[Beer-lord]

But I'm not really feeling it in my tongue and still not sure if it's the cause, part of the cause or not at all.
But you're right, it's not desired in the beers I'm brewing, but no more 30 psi flash carbs until I figure this one out.