Pellicle Formation
Moderators: BlackDuck, Beer-lord, LouieMacGoo, philm00x, gwcr
Pellicle Formation
About a month or so ago, I decided to throw together a batch of MR. B extract can while ignoring all sanitation guidelines whatsoever. I sanitized nothing through the whole process including the LBK. I have had some mess ups where I was sure my batch would be contaminated and they turned out fine, so I really wanted to see what it took to actually screw up a batch (this can of extract was old so I didn't care). I put it in the LBK, pitched the yeast and let it ferment, adding some leftover raspberry puree somewhere down the line. After fermentation, I pitched the dregs of a Jolly Pumpkin Weizen Bam beer into it. Nothing happened for at least two weeks, but I just looked today and there is pellicle formed across the whole top of the beer. Now I don't know if this is from an bad infection caused by lack of sanitation, or if it's a "good" infection from the jolly pumpkin yeast. Either way, should I let this play out and see if it turns into something good or should I just dump it and chalk it up as a bad infection?
#15 There Gose 'Nother Semester - Gone
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
Re: Pellicle Formation
I would find a way to transfer it to another container and let it ride for a year. I think the LBK will allow the beer to oxidize over the length of time it needs to sit.
I'm guessing 2-2.5 gallons in your LBK, maybe transfer to 2 one gallon jugs with air locks or if closer to 3, get a 3 gallon better bottle. The less head space the better.
The beer fermented with the yeast you pitched and I believe the pellicle is from the JP dregs.
Sounds great, please keep us informed.
I'm guessing 2-2.5 gallons in your LBK, maybe transfer to 2 one gallon jugs with air locks or if closer to 3, get a 3 gallon better bottle. The less head space the better.
The beer fermented with the yeast you pitched and I believe the pellicle is from the JP dregs.
Sounds great, please keep us informed.
Naked Cat Brewery On Tap
Re: Pellicle Formation
I think the 2 one gallon jug idea sounds good, thanks! I will keep this updated with any new news
#15 There Gose 'Nother Semester - Gone
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
Re: Pellicle Formation
And don't forget.....we love pictures.
ANTLER BREWING
Drinking
#93 - Gerst Amber Ale
Conditioning and Carbing
Fermenting
On Deck
Drinking
#93 - Gerst Amber Ale
Conditioning and Carbing
Fermenting
On Deck
Re: Pellicle Formation
This should do for now 
#15 There Gose 'Nother Semester - Gone
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
Re: Pellicle Formation
Nice!!!
ANTLER BREWING
Drinking
#93 - Gerst Amber Ale
Conditioning and Carbing
Fermenting
On Deck
Drinking
#93 - Gerst Amber Ale
Conditioning and Carbing
Fermenting
On Deck
Re: Pellicle Formation
You should discard that LBK, including it's spigot, and any other plastic that touched the infected brew. Otherwise it is likely to spread to other batches. This is common practice, and I have suffered a series of infected beer, partly due to re-using plastics.
Making beer and stew for the Zombie Apocalypse.
Never mind, there it is.
Never mind, there it is.
Re: Pellicle Formation
Or, turn it into your primary "yankfan9 Sour Brew Fantastic Fermentation Fun Factory", more commonalty known as yf9SBFFFF.John Sand wrote:You should discard that LBK, including it's spigot, and any other plastic that touched the infected brew.
Naked Cat Brewery On Tap
Re: Pellicle Formation
Haha I like the sound of that, Inkleg. I might just do that!
#15 There Gose 'Nother Semester - Gone
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
Re: Pellicle Formation
I like it. It might be awesome in a year or two who knows.
One thing - Pellicles form to PROTECT the beer bugs from oxygen. That is their entire reason for existence - it is a cap - and it will only form in the presence of some oxygen. So you really do not need minimal headspace and likely should not totally seal it up if you do. A bit of oxygen isn't bad in a sour. Often sour beer brewers when letting it sit in glass for a year will not use an airlock, instead they take a tapered wooden dowel (think something like an unfinished table leg) and shove it into the hole. This keeps dust and spiders from getting in, but allows some oxygen permeation even though it's in glass. A little bit of oxidation can help develop the flavors of a sour. Authentic Belgian sours are brewed in wooden barrels with a cork stuff in the bung hole once they are done spewing. The wooden barrels harbor yeast, wild yeast, other bugs and do allow for some oxygen permeation over the long duration it's in them.
Picture below is totally spontaneous fermentation, nothing was added to those barrels except for wort.
One thing - Pellicles form to PROTECT the beer bugs from oxygen. That is their entire reason for existence - it is a cap - and it will only form in the presence of some oxygen. So you really do not need minimal headspace and likely should not totally seal it up if you do. A bit of oxygen isn't bad in a sour. Often sour beer brewers when letting it sit in glass for a year will not use an airlock, instead they take a tapered wooden dowel (think something like an unfinished table leg) and shove it into the hole. This keeps dust and spiders from getting in, but allows some oxygen permeation even though it's in glass. A little bit of oxidation can help develop the flavors of a sour. Authentic Belgian sours are brewed in wooden barrels with a cork stuff in the bung hole once they are done spewing. The wooden barrels harbor yeast, wild yeast, other bugs and do allow for some oxygen permeation over the long duration it's in them.
Picture below is totally spontaneous fermentation, nothing was added to those barrels except for wort.
- Timmermans.jpg (82.39 KiB) Viewed 1416 times
Re: Pellicle Formation
Very interesting. I need to get one of those barrels! I have been reading a lot of the Mad Fermentationists articles on brewing sours, too. He seems to know quite a bit about the art. Since you are saying it's alright for some oxygen to get in, would it be alright to leave it in the LBK? Or would that let in too much oxygen over time?
#15 There Gose 'Nother Semester - Gone
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
Re: Pellicle Formation
LBK is probably too permeable. Not because of the plastic, but because of the lid. The wooden dowel or barrels like the above only allow small amounts of oxygen exchange compared to what can get under the lid of the LBK. You have to remember that it's going to be in whatever you put it in for 8 months to a year or even more.
Re: Pellicle Formation
Yeah that's what I figured. I think I'll just buy two one gallon jugs and stick it in those
#15 There Gose 'Nother Semester - Gone
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
#16 Two Brothers Brown - Gone
#17 Home Toasted Pale - Gone
#18 Porter Potty - Gone
#19 I do IPA - Gone
#20 Max Capacity Stout - One Left in the cellar
#21 Not So Independent Scotch Ale - Drinking
#22 Berliner Weisse - Gone
#23 Fruit Fallacy IPA - Carbonating
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rickbray66
- Brew Fool
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Re: Pellicle Formation
yankfan9 wrote:This should do for now
Awesome!!! Reminds me of one of those images of brain neurons in action.
Rick