Dry hop and then cold crash

[FedoraDave]

I've got a 2.5 gallon batch of Groomsman's Pride IPA in the lager fridge. I fermented it there because of the heat. I could set the temp at 65 or so and know it would be an ideal temperature.

So I intend to bottle it next Saturday, but I want it to be as clear as I can make it, so I intend to drop the temp to around 40 on Thursday. I dry hopped it today, to take advantage of the three or so days at 65, since I don't think I'll get much out of the hops once I drop the temperature. I usually don't like to dry hop more than two or three days, so I figure this sort of evens out.

Yes? No?

[Rebel_B]

? Why wouldn't you dry hop for more than two or three days? What is the question?

[FedoraDave]

I attended last year's AHA Convention in Philadelphia, and Stan Hieronymus hosted a seminar on getting the most out of hops; specifically highly-hopped beers and the tendency of the aroma to fade over time. One of the revelations was that a 24-hour dry hop period was ideal to get the most out this addition in terms of aroma as well as longevity. There were all sorts of chemical equations and stuff to back this up, but that 24-hour period stuck with me.

I don't mind extending it a little more, figuring it's not going to get grassy or vegetable-like in such a short period of time, and I'll be drinking it quickly enough so the aroma doesn't fade. But based on this seminar, I don't want to go much more than a couple of days dry hopping.

[Crazy Climber]

Dave, I think the approach you laid out in your OP is exactly what I would do, given the time frame involved.
I have it in my head (from multiple sources that I cannot recall easily) that dry-hopping cooler than mid-60s doesn't accomplish nearly as much.
And, like you, I am leery of leaving hops in the secondary for more than a few days.
So....dry hop first, for a few days, then crash, then bottle.
Good luck with it!

[FedoraDave]

I dry hopped Sunday. I'm bottling Saturday. I'll drop the temperature to around 40 or so on Wednesday night. This will also get the lager fridge ready for the Copperbottom Lager I'm brewing on Sunday. I'll just bump the temp up to 54 or so when I bottle, and I'll be good to go the next day.

[Kealia]

ON a related note - you'll get more out of the dry hopping if you can cold crash BEFORE dry hopping. But, this requires the use of a secondary. A lot of the hop oils will bind themselves to yest if available, so dry hopping and then cold crashing will pull a lot of the oils out. Just something to keep in mind for the best utilization of hops during dry hopping.

To be clear you would:
Cold crash
Rack to secondary and dry hop
Let warm back up to 60's during dry hop
Cold crash again to drop out any new hop particles
Bottle/keg

It's more work than I want to do so I just assume I will get more aroma by increasing the dry hop amount - allowing the yeast to take some down with them with they drop out.

[FedoraDave]

That's good to know, and it's probably more work than I care to do, too.

Besides, it's too late for this batch. I dry hopped Sunday, and dropped the temp to 40 this evening. But I may keep this technique in mind when I make the final batch for the wedding. It may take an extra week, but I think it deserves this attention to detail.

[ScrewyBrewer]

Just offering another thought here on aroma hoping in general. I've read where adding hops at flameout adds an aroma that lasts longer in the packaged beer than traditional dry hoping alone. As the boil ends and the heat source is turned off toss in an aroma hop addition. The hop oils will continue to isomerize in the hot wort until the temperature falls to below 170F. I've adopted a three prong approach to aroma hoping that has produced consistent results across many styles of beer.

Apparently making additions at 5 minutes before flameout, another addition at flameout (aka:knockout) followed by a traditional dry hopping addition gives the beer very complex aroma characteristics. I'm not suggesting this process will fit every brewers idea of aroma hopping but it's certainly something I recommend being worth trying if you have the time.

[FedoraDave]

This interests me, also, Vince, and thanks for the input.

One question, though.

Is the flame-out addition then removed after the wort is chilled prior to pitching yeast? Or does it remain throughout the fermentation process?

I would imagine it gets removed, since you risk those grassy, vegetable flavors resulting from over-long hop exposure.

[BigPapaG]

For beers where I want an aroma presence that stands tall, I do what Vince does...

I do remove all hops prior to pitching yeast... And for some styles I skip the dry hop.

Actually, I have been skipping the dry hop for most styles lately, excluding hoppy IPA's, etc.

[ScrewyBrewer]

The answer is definitely yes, before pitching my yeast I remove all of the kettle hop additions. Taking it a step further once the fermentation has calmed down and there's no more bubbles coming up the airlock that's when I'll add my dry hop addition.

I use a large mesh hop sack for this, weighted down near the opening so that the hops sort of float in the nearly fermented beer. Ha, sounds like overkill maybe but this keeps the hops submerged in beer while keeping them out of the yeast layer at the bottom of the fermentor.

hop-sack-1sml.jpg (82.88 KiB) Viewed 1584 times

Before packaging the beer I like to cold crash the fermentor, hops and all, for a week. In Dave's case it would be better to pull the hop sack out after a few days.

[Kealia]

Just offering another thought here on aroma hoping in general. I've read where adding hops at flameout adds an aroma that lasts longer in the packaged beer than traditional dry hoping alone. As the boil ends and the heat source is turned off toss in an aroma hop addition. The hop oils will continue to isomerize in the hot wort until the temperature falls to below 170F.

Agreed that knockout hops and hop-stands are good options, too. Keep in mind there is a lot of literature out there and nobody has this part really nailed down yet. For example, everything that I've read says that you want to do your hop-stand under either 180 or 170 to get the most from the aroma. Over that and the aromatics are driven off by the higher temps.

What I can tell you is that the hop-stands I've done @ 30-minutes at 170 have produced some outstanding aromas - both in terms of strength and longevity. Now that we've thrown about 6 different ideas your way - get moving man!

[FedoraDave]

Yeah, I agree that nobody's got it completely nailed down, but I'll pays my money and takes my cherce when it comes to future recipes. I think all of these ideas are good ones, and superior to the traditional dry hopping for 3 or 4 days before bottling. I'll definitely try a hop stand as I chill the wort and see what that gets me.

[Beerlabelman]

Great topic. I'm just getting ready to Dry-Hop "Apocalypto 8" & I'm going to do it in the secondary for the last 5 days in a hop sack. I was going to do 7 days, but after reading this I'm going with 5. This brew has 8.5oz of hops total with 5.5oz used at 5 minutes, whirlpool & dry-hopping. So most of my hops were added at the end. The other key to good aroma though, as we all know, always goes back to the yeast. The yeast is the engine. I've also heard using a little acidulated malt helps. Oh, & I forgot about water treatment, & mashing temps. It never ends in the world of homebrewing. Hope to see you all at this years GABF! Cheers Beer Brothers & Sisters!

[Beer-lord]

I think I posted this before but I've had great luck splitting my dry hops in half at 5 and 3 days and like what that has done to my IPA's.