Sparge/Lauter speed?

[Kealia]

As I start preparing to use my new mash tun next weekend a few questions pop into mind. Today's is:

For batch sparging, does the speed in which I drain the mash tun affect efficiency? Meaning, is there a difference between opening the ball valve and draining it as quickly as it will go versus only opening halfway so it's a slower drain?

I'm going to batch sparge the first few beers I make with this before trying fly sparging and I'd love to get the most out of the grains as possible.

So, any pros or cons to a fully open valve?

[MadBrewer]

It depends on a few things like your crush especually. If you crush finer, you might have problems with stuck mash/sparge. Flase bottoms can be more prone to clogging. I have your exact setup and the first time I used it I had a stuck mash. A couple things to keep in mind are:

Do you use rice hulls? If not I would recomend it...they are cheap insurance. I never used them until I got this new setup.

Do you do a mashout? Getting the grain bed temp up higher can make lautering easier.

Best advise is to start out by draining very slow. Crack the valve open and increase as you go. You dont want to start off by going fully open. You will draw out the sitting liquid and then collapse the grain bed and your flow will stop. Start off slow when opening the valve. Nothing worse than a stuck mash its a PITA. Get a feel for your new setup and go from there.

As far as sparging batch sparge is different...you are just draining the sugars that are in solution. With fly sparging you are actually rinsing the sugars from the malt. So with batch sparging its just like draining the mash. Just dont forget to vorlauf.

Theses are just suggestions...you may have no problem at all going balls out with the valve wide open. I run a HERMS with your exact setup and I can run my pump and mashtun wide open only with the use of rice hulls. I have been getting 80% effeciency with my setuo and batch sparging. To me fly sparging would just add another hour to my brewday with no benefit. I really dont even see the attraction for fly sparging but thats just me.

[Pudge]

Yes, efficiency is essentially two parts.... conversion and extraction.

Lautering too fast could create channeling where instead of flowing evenly down through the grain bed some of the wort tends to form a channel thereby not effectively rinsing all of the grains. I use a single braided hose in a 5 gallon cooler. That setup will always create a bit of channeling when the wort gets down towards the bottom of the cooler. It'll always channel towards the center... towards the braided hose.

That doesn't mean slower will always result in higher extraction, but possibly. I double sparge. That helps. I also sparge with 170 degree water in an attempt to get the entire grain bed closer to 170 hoping that will make things run more fluidly.

Some say the speed of your first runnings doesn't really matter since you're going to sparge anyway. I still think you should take your time. It can't hurt and why hurry. I enjoy brew day.

[Kealia]

Your points make sense. I do plan on a vorlauf and then a double sparge and I'll see where that gets me. I was running about 72% efficiency on my BIAB brews and I'm hoping for about 75% or more here. But more importantly, I just want to be consistent batch to batch.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[BlackDuck]

I use an auto siphon to sparge with. I start the autosiphon first to build appx 2 to 3 inches of water on top of the grain bed. I then open the ball valve up and do the best I can to match the speed of the wort coming out of the valve with the speed of the water going into the tun. When all the sparge water is gone, I leave the the valve alone and let it drain at the same speed. This usually takes me about 20 minutes.

[BlackDuck]

Oh.. And before I start the sparge I recirculate a couple of times first. I empty 1/2 gallon of wort into a jug and pour over top of the grain bed. I do this about 3 or 4 times. This will help set the grainbed and will help keep any grain from getting into the boil kettle.

[Kealia]

Yeah thanks Chris. I do plan on trying that method after a few batch sparges, assuming I don't get some crazy efficiency that I can't pass up that makes me stay with batch

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[BlackDuck]

As for the efficiency, my BeerSmith is set at 68% Brewhouse efficiency. And the mash efficiency is in the mid 70's.

[Pudge]

Your points make sense. I do plan on a vorlauf and then a double sparge and I'll see where that gets me. I was running about 72% efficiency on my BIAB brews and I'm hoping for about 75% or more here. But more importantly, I just want to be consistent batch to batch.


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Actually, I gave up a vorlauf. I didn't notice any difference.

Some notes...

--The smaller the grain bill, the higher the efficiency.
--Lagers have higher efficiency. A 90 minute boil equals more sparging.
--Really big beers often get a quad sparge with my setup. That will leave you guessing.

I have a 1.052 Munich Helles recipe that I brewed today. I slowed the lauter WAY down simply because I was busy and needed the extra time. That 1.052 recipe turned into a 1.057 beer.

[Gymrat]

I have a system with a false bottom. I found that to avoid stuck sparges I do a thinner mash. I generally like to go 1.75 to 2 qts per pound of grain. I haven't had a stuck sparge since switching to this ratio. I am still pushing just under 80% efficiency. Channeling is not an issue unless you fly sparge. For stuck sparges get a long heat resistant silicone hose. If the sparge sticks put that on your valve and blow into it. Before letting the pressure off close your valve. It may take a few times doing this to clear the obstruction but it will happen. Also I float a plastic plate in my mash tun and pour my vorlauff onto that to keep it from disturbing the grain bed. It does a fine job of dispersing the flow from my pitcher.

[Gymrat]

I might add I have had less issues when I just open my valve all the way from the start when taking either of my runnings.

[Pudge]

"Channeling is not an issue unless you fly sparge."

I respectfully disagree. Water flowing through a grain bed is water flowing through a grain bed no matter how you placed the water there.

[Kealia]

Good discussion. I'm currently planning on opening the valve about halfway for the vorlauf and then likely full once it gets going. I fully expect to feel like a newb again this coming weekend until I get to the boil.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Pudge]

Well worth some experimentation. I could be wrong. I'm only going by my own numbers and assumptions.

[Gymrat]

"Channeling is not an issue unless you fly sparge."

I respectfully disagree. Water flowing through a grain bed is water flowing through a grain bed no matter how you placed the water there.

Let me put it this way. The water will not "channel" by simply taking a running. You run into that when you fly sparge if your sparge arm does not move continuously. When I batch sparge I pour my water in, stir, vorlauff, then take my running again. Unless there are other forces involved the water will naturally drain from the tun evenly. At least it does with my false bottom.