HBC 438 - Dwarf Hop Juice

[mashani]

Simple beer to try out Northern Brewers "Super Structure" LME that I got on a 20% off sale (some mix of 2 row, Maris Otter, and light crystal ready made for APA/IPAs), and the HBC 438 I picked up. Based on their description of tropical, stone fruit, herbs, spices, and some cedar, and from what I've read of folks who made stuff with it "Orange Juice" or "Orange Soda", I decided to mix in some Azacca I had which has a lot of citrus, mango, and some pine. Both of them are Dwarf Hops (they grow close to the ground, not high up into the air), hence the name.

So super simple 3 gallon batch in my "Mini Cooper".

4.5# of the Super Structure LME
1/2oz of HBC 438 and 1/4oz of Azacca @15
1/2oz of HBC 438 and 1/4oz of Azacca @10
1/2oz of HBC 438 and 1/4oz of Azacca @5, lid went onto the pot.
1/2oz of HBC 438 and 1/4oz of Azacca @0, lid immediately thrown back onto the pot.

30 minute lid on hop stand of all of that with the lid remaining on the pot. Cool with lid on the pot. Lid only comes off the pot when I pour it into fermenter. Both an Anti-Brett and Keep the Aroma In thing.

HBC 438 was 15.7AAU, and Azacca was 12.7AAU, so this is some stupid IBU theoretical amount even without a long boil/traditional bittering addition due to the extra 10 minutes or so of full utilization of all those hops during the hop stand. Something > 90 in theory (or 130+ if you were to use Tinseth, but I don't for this sort of short boil batch). Of course it won't really seem that bitter, but it's plenty, I've done this sort of thing before many times. It works. I like it. It won't be harsh bitter, it will be very smooth.

It was 1.055.

If NB's numbers are to be believed this should be about 7 SRM, but I figure it will be a bit more, unless they turn over that stuff really fast. It looked more like 9 to me. But it was full of commando hops so who knows.

I pitched Notty and my temps are low 60s. And this LME in theory ferments out quite well according to the reviews. So it should be clean and ruled by the hops.

[ScrewyBrewer]

You certainly aren't afraid to take risks using new brewing ingredients, that's for sure. I tend to get too comfortable brewing tried and true recipes but fact is they all started out as experimental brews too. I admire your creativity and recipe design skills, as they say nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[mashani]

I try things, and if they work, I then re-use them in other experimental beers. IE I know this hop schedule will make good beer based on using other high AA hops in the same way before. I am fairly certain that these hops will go together based on other beers I've made with the Azacca and descriptions of the HBC 438 folks have described. I've done the lid on hopstand thing plenty of times and it works great for me. I don't see how that LME can make bad beer based on its description and the reviews. So although this is experimental, it's not *that* much of a crazy thing. The amount of theoretical AAUs seems nuts, and it will be bitter, but it won't seem as bitter as it sounds because it won't have any harsh bite at all due to it all being late. Some people might miss the bite, but in beers like these with lower amounts of malt then a DIPA, it really doesn't need the bite IMHO. I think those NE IPAs folks have been talking about follow a similar mentality there from what I've read of them. I'd normally rather drink a super hoppy 1.05 to 1.06ish beer then a super hoppy 1.07+ beer, which is why I found ways to role my own that I like.

So I guess what it comes down to is I have no fear of making "Educated" frankenbrews. It's not all total crazy, it's based on experience. And I really like the variety of beers in my pipeline, as there is a beer for any mood.

Soon enough it will be Saison and Belgian season, so totally will switch gears there. My basic patersbier recipe, it's tried and true as such - I just do small variations on it to keep it interesting through the summer, just mix up types of candi syrup and hops, but the basic framework is the same, always keep a batch of that in my rotation somewhere. Depending on the hops I may do a traditional boil or I may do a short boil (IE if I have Jaryloo or Armais on hand, as the AAUs allow for a short boil). I have some Calypso hops which sound like they might be good in one of these and/or a Saison so I will probably roll a couple with those. (I've never used them before, but pear, apple, lemon, lime, and some slight spicy earthiness and floral aromas sound just dandy for such beers and will compliment the yeasts I like to use nicely. I will short boil those because they are stupidly high in AAUs).

[mashani]

Bottled at 1.012

Tasted great, all sorts of fruit going on, a lot like the Equinox beer but without the weird rough edge that it had when I bottled it (more like the well conditioned version). Tropical fruit salad is a good short description. If I could keg it, I could drink it in a week. It's going to be nice. I like dwarf hops.

[Kealia]

So are you getting any mint or herbalness (is that a word??) from the HBC-438 that you can tell? The stone fruit and tropical description is appealing to me but the earthy. minty, herbal notes...not so much. I saw these at MoreBeer yesterday and considered grabbing some but thought I'd do some more reading first. And honestly, from what I can tell you have a pretty darn good palette for picking out flavors so I'll be curious to hear more on this.

[mashani]

I noticed a bit of piney/woody (maybe that cedar thing they describe) bits in the background, but I like those things as a foil against the fruit. I don't like "just fruit" so much. The piney bits could just as likely came from the Azacca, it has slight pine that plays really nice against all the fruit.

But I didn't notice any mint.

That doesn't mean after it conditions I won't. My taste was a hydro sample. But since I pitch huge amounts of yeast in beers like these, my final hydro sample tends to be pretty clean and somewhat representative, it just depends on if some hop flavor fades a bit and lets some other stand out more. Like the green pepper thing with the Equinox. It was overwhelming in my sample, but it mellowed out and was mostly tropical after a few weeks. All the other stuff was there, it just was buried behind that.

So, I'll let you know more in a few weeks.

[mashani]

@Kealia:

I popped tester.

So, yes, now that it's a real carbed beer - there is an underlying earthy woody cedar like edge. It is unlike the pine we normally get, it's more like opening a cedar closet.
Mint... I don't taste mint when it's in my mouth as a liquid, but there is a noticeable minty thing in the nose and the finish (the "mouth cooling / nose tingling vibe" and some herbal bitterness if that makes any sense) that goes on after I swallow it, and it lingers on the palate, because there are a lot of hop oils and they are coating my mouth - so if you don't like that, well you would not like this. It also tastes like I use a too much bitter orange peel and coriander in a wit beer. Except the coriander is more like the leaves (cilantro) then the seeds. So I guess that's the herbal thing besides the mint. This I don't think I can stress enough - it's got a strong "wit beer on crack" vibe. Between the bitter herbal thing and the bitter orange thing, it is making the beer come across as a lot more bitter then it would otherwise. Normally all late hops the bitter is smooth - but this has a bitterness that lingers on my palate too. The bitter orange thing I'm describing is pretty potent - I think its what some folks are describing as orange soda, except they must have more residual sweetness for it to come across that way. Bitter orange is what I have here. Those are the things I taste together the most. Bitter orange, cedar, and cilantro like lemon (as in not like lemon exactly, but more herbal). There is some pine and some berries, but they are much more in the background now vs. when I sampled out of the fermenter. Funny how carb and time changes things.

I don't mind drinking it by any means - but I like weird stuff. This is no more weird then a funky brett beer. But it is weird. I am absolutely sure though that I'd like this better if I swapped the Azacca and HBC-438 around ratio wise, more berries and pine and less earth, cedar, herbs and orange. I would be unlikely to brew it this same way again.

That said, I wonder with some age (this isn't even 3 weeks in the bottle) if it will mellow and turn into something I like a lot more like the Equinox beer did. We will see.

So at this point, my suggestion would be to use these hops as a small part of a blend instead of the majority of the blend as I did here. Or not at all if any of that sounds disgusting to you.

I personally could see a small amount of these hops being good to finish a wit beer. Or a larger amount as a short boil in a wit beer. If I get more, I think that's what I would try, I think you could do a short boil wit, without actually using any bitter orange and coriander and end up with a good wit beer like thing. Like my Easy French blond recipe except all wheat dme and wit beer yeast and this as the hop. I could see that work.

I'll update this post with more perceptions when it ages a bit.

[mashani]

@Kealia:

I popped another bottle. It hasn't changed much from what I described above. So you might not like the HBC 438 so much I'm afraid. I will would switch the mix around if I did it again, with the HBC 438 being the smaller part. I like the Azacca more.

[Kealia]

Cool, thanks for the detailed post(s).