Mash & Boil for $199 or $259 (without or with pump)

[bpgreen]

Austin homebrewing and adventures in homebrewing (homebrewing.org) both have the mash & boil on sale right now for $199 for the one without the pump or $259 for the one with the pump.

I bought the one without the pump for 250 a couple of years ago and bought an external pump, but only used it a couple of times, so in my opinion, the one without the pump is the better deal.

For an extra $30 (pumpless version), you can get a digimash. The digimash has a higher capacity (9.5 gallons vs 7.5 for the mash and boil) and can be converted to 220 (or 221, whatever it takes) if you're so inclined, but I don't think it had the double walls of the mash and boil.

[MadBrewer]

I looked at the M&B when I was shopping for an all in one system but it was the larger capacity (9.25 Gal) on the RoboBrew (now known as BrewZilla) that made me go that route. If I had waited just a little longer I may have went with the Anvil Foundry system (10.5 gal capacity I believe) and better PID temp controller.

The M&B seems like a steal for the price but one thing that I have heard of the M&B and Digiboil is the controller can only maintain +/- ~5 degrees, have you found this to be true? I'm happy with my RoboBrew and the built in pump. But if I could do it again, I probably would have gone with the Anvil unit. The extra capacity is a strong selling point for me because when I bought this unit, I moved away from sparging. So having the extra capacity to be able to do full volume mashes with larger batches or really big grain bills would be the kicker.

It does seem like the M&B kind of kicked off this whole genre, kind of a Brew In A Basket process. It's been nice to cut out some of the process steps, less vessels to clean, no transfers, etc. I can only imagine whats available in a few more years. I don't expect mine to run forever and when I'm looking to replace it, I'm sure there will be even more options out there. At first I even thought of putting together my own build, but you cant really beat the price on these comparable units.

[mashani]

I looked at the M&B when I was shopping for an all in one system but it was the larger capacity (9.25 Gal) on the RoboBrew (now known as BrewZilla) that made me go that route. If I had waited just a little longer I may have went with the Anvil Foundry system (10.5 gal capacity I believe) and better PID temp controller.

The M&B seems like a steal for the price but one thing that I have heard of the M&B and Digiboil is the controller can only maintain +/- ~5 degrees, have you found this to be true?

The controller will not fire the heating element back up until the temperature it "reads" (what you see on the readout) drops ~5 degrees from your set mash temperature.

What the reading is coming from is the thin 1" layer of wort below the mash pipe, not the mash itself. When it heats to the mash temp, and then shuts off the burner at the desired set mash temp, it also can keep heating that little 1" layer of wort yes, up to ~5 degrees warmer due to residual heat from the burner.

But what is *NOT* actually happening is that your mash temperature is fluctuating 5-10 degrees every cycle. The actual mash temperature inside the basket says quite consistent when measured by a probe thermometer through the lid. And what is actually in the mash closely matches whatever you set the thing to. All you are seeing on the display is the thin layer at the bottom, which rapidly diffuses up the sides around the mash pipe, and really just keeps the overall mash where it is supposed to be.

So basically it is a matter of just convincing yourself to totally ignore what the display says. Just set it where you want, walk away, and relax about it. I've measured it, I know it's working right, so now I just ignore it.

It's not really that it's a bad controller, it's simply the design of the thing. It would require a wired probe that you could stick into the actual mash to allow for a controller to display a more "precise" reading from "what you see on the display" standpoint.

That was the long version, the short version is RDWHAHB and the thing makes beer. People go overboard with these things modding them to solve problems that don't actually exist much of the time. More power to them if it makes them happy I guess, but for me the whole point of the thing is it's simplicity.

[bpgreen]

How do you ou like the robobrew?

I've read negative reviews on it that say it has low quality control.

I haven't heard or read much about the digimash, but a former coworker recently bought an anvil. So did Eric Shepard (esheppy from the old mr beer forum, now blogs as sheppybrew). Both of then seem to like it.

I think that any of these systems can make it easy to move to all grain. I'm sure there are pluses and minuses to each.

I'm happy with the mash and boil. It (and covid) finally pushed me to make the mice from stovetop pm to all grain. If I were buying today, there are so many options. I'm not sure what I'd pick today.

I don't mind that 110v takes longer to come to a boil. The amount of time I'm actually doing anything is still much less than when I was doing partial mash batches on the stove.

[mashani]

The amount of time I'm actually doing anything is still much less than when I was doing partial mash batches on the stove.

Yes, this is exactly it, especially since I slow chill (and I think you do too maybe?). I really spend less actual "time" doing stuff, even though the "duration" of all the stuff is longer.

I just really verified that making that Coopers extract batch with the stuff I got sent. If I had even done a little steep I would have spent more actual time. And even though I spent less actual time on the kit beer, the time spent was far more annoying.

[MadBrewer]

The controller will not fire the heating element back up until the temperature it "reads" (what you see on the readout) drops ~5 degrees from your set mash temperature.

What the reading is coming from is the thin 1" layer of wort below the mash pipe, not the mash itself. When it heats to the mash temp, and then shuts off the burner at the desired set mash temp, it also can keep heating that little 1" layer of wort yes, up to ~5 degrees warmer due to residual heat from the burner.

But what is *NOT* actually happening is that your mash temperature is fluctuating 5-10 degrees every cycle. The actual mash temperature inside the basket says quite consistent when measured by a probe thermometer through the lid. And what is actually in the mash closely matches whatever you set the thing to. All you are seeing on the display is the thin layer at the bottom, which rapidly diffuses up the sides around the mash pipe, and really just keeps the overall mash where it is supposed to be.

So basically it is a matter of just convincing yourself to totally ignore what the display says. Just set it where you want, walk away, and relax about it. I've measured it, I know it's working right, so now I just ignore it.

It's not really that it's a bad controller, it's simply the design of the thing. It would require a wired probe that you could stick into the actual mash to allow for a controller to display a more "precise" reading from "what you see on the display" standpoint.

That was the long version, the short version is RDWHAHB and the thing makes beer. People go overboard with these things modding them to solve problems that don't actually exist much of the time. More power to them if it makes them happy I guess, but for me the whole point of the thing is it's simplicity.

That makes sense. I have done the same with my RoboBrew and temperature of the actual mash is pretty consistent with the temperature on the display checking with a long probe thermometer. My unit has about a 3 degree differential so if I set for 154, it will get down to 151 before it fires up. I keep it on the lower wattage element and dial in the flow to keep the cycling down. I also picked up the neoprene jacket to help since I brew out in the garage and it's a bit colder this time of year.

[MadBrewer]

How do you ou like the robobrew?

I've read negative reviews on it that say it has low quality control.

I haven't heard or read much about the digimash, but a former coworker recently bought an anvil. So did Eric Shepard (esheppy from the old mr beer forum, now blogs as sheppybrew). Both of then seem to like it.

I think that any of these systems can make it easy to move to all grain. I'm sure there are pluses and minuses to each.

I'm happy with the mash and boil. It (and covid) finally pushed me to make the mice from stovetop pm to all grain. If I were buying today, there are so many options. I'm not sure what I'd pick today.

I don't mind that 110v takes longer to come to a boil. The amount of time I'm actually doing anything is still much less than when I was doing partial mash batches on the stove.

I really like the RoboBrew and have been really happy with it. I can't really comment on the QC because I haven't had any issues nor do I have anything to compare it to. I am aware of a few problems people have had, most common being the connections on the control board burning up. Honestly I believe some of that to be people using the switches under load and perhaps having lose connections to begin with. Before I used mine, I went through it and checked all the wiring, connections and tightness of fittings, didn't find anything major and I have had it apart 2 more times to check on things after a full year of using it and things look good. I have V 3.0 they now have 3.1 which is an upgraded controller and screen and the addition of a handle at near the bottom of the unit for tilting/dumping and rubber feet to raise the unit off a solid surface. They also dropped the RoboBrew name and have 2 sizes of the BrewZilla.

I'm not aware of any other common complaints. Some have mentioned temp calibration issues or stuck mashes, but calibration is an easy fix. Stuck mashes are going to fall on the conditions of the user. Overall, I guess it could be a built a little more robust, but for the price point over something like the Grain Father, that is to be expected. If I was buying today, I would probably go anvil but that is mostly because of the extra capacity.

I have the 35L 110v unit. I also find the 1500 watts of power quite sufficient. I typically mash in with 7 gals of water or more, so heating that takes I don't know a good half hour, 45 mins...never truly timed it but it's not bad and just enough time to get everything else going the morning of Brew Day. The controller has a delay function so I can actually fill it with strike water the night before, program it and be ready to mash in first thing in the morning. It also has a programable automatic temperature steps, but I don't ever use that function.

[bpgreen]

Mashani, yes, I do slow chill.

Madbrewer, I'm glad to hear you haven't had any qc issues. Those issues may have been exaggerated. I think I read about them on there mash and boil Facebook group, so they might be biased.

Stuck mashed or stuck sparges can happen with any equipment. That seems to be a common theme on the mash and boil group. And every time it comes up, the response(often from several people is "rice hulls").

[berryman]

I have the first gen. M&B, that thing moved me up from extract and steep and PM to AG and was a easy step. I can easily say if somebody has the brewing basics down could go AG with this kind of setup right from a MB/BD type of brewing. Not just M&B anymore, a lot of good ones out there now. I personally wouldn't get one with a built in pump, not 100% needed. Yes I use a pump external that I added, I don't do a constant recirc. but do it manually thoughout the mash and use the pump to put in the fermenter so no lifting. If this unit goes bad and someday it probably will, I will buy another one of this type but might not be the M&B. We will see when the time comes.

[Kealia]

I've also been happy with the simplicity and footprint of the M&B.
Set up my water at night, mash in before breakfast, then get back to it when I get to it.
And, when using Kviek yeast, fermenting in it makes it that much easier.

[bpgreen]

I bought a printer cart for my mash and boil. It has adjustable shelves (I haven't moved them since I got it set the way I wanted). So I transfer to the fermenter by opening the valve wide open. That also does a great job of aerating the wort.

I was doing stovetop partial mashes. I agree with berryman that with a system like the mash and boil (anvil, robobrew/brewzilla, digimash, grainfather, etc), even if your only previous brewing experience is prehopped extract kits, you could easily go all grain.

[mashani]

I bought a printer cart for my mash and boil. It has adjustable shelves (I haven't moved them since I got it set the way I wanted). So I transfer to the fermenter by opening the valve wide open. That also does a great job of aerating the wort.

Yes, I do the same, don't need any other sort of aeration. But I'm dumping into 3 gallon fermenters so easier to pick up. A full 5-6 gallon fermenter is like 50-60#, which isn't as much fun to move very far while trying to also not spill things or squeeze / pop the lid off.

[Beer-lord]

Off topic---while listening to a podcast recently, they did a poll (not scientific mind you) and 60% of the respondents said they used some sort of electric brewing equipment. Another 20% said they were thinking about it. They asked a few questions about it and it seems there's a lot of new brewers going electric much faster or for their first brew due to the quantity of options in the E-brewing world. My LHBS told me he sold more this past year (maybe Covid boredom related) than ever before.

[mashani]

Off topic---while listening to a podcast recently, they did a poll (not scientific mind you) and 60% of the respondents said they used some sort of electric brewing equipment. Another 20% said they were thinking about it. They asked a few questions about it and it seems there's a lot of new brewers going electric much faster or for their first brew due to the quantity of options in the E-brewing world. My LHBS told me he sold more this past year (maybe Covid boredom related) than ever before.

I can tell you that if mine was to fry I'd buy another, or something similar. It makes my brewing life too easy to not have it.

[mashani]

So after more then 2 years I finally had to replace the gasket between the spigot and the inner wall of the Mash & Boil as my old one failed and it was starting to drip out from the spigot a bit. First thing I've really had to fiddle with.

Apparently I didn't tighten it down enough. Put 6 gallons of water in it to heat up, and came to check on it and found 5 gallons of water in the mash & boil and 1 on the floor. I had done a water/leak test before but never heated it. Heated water expands things and I guess that was enough to cause mayhem.

The funny thing is it was NOT leaking out the outside of the spigot like the failed one. I think it was getting past the silicone washer, but then falling into the air gap between the double walls because it wasn't cranked down enough to close that gap. And apparently it is designed so if stuff does get in there that it drips out the bottom somehow instead of filling up the inner walls with water or hot wort. (IE it must not be totally sealed there, which I guess makes sense). This wouldn't happen with one of the single walled eBIAB ones it would just leak out the spigot instead, but these are special like that.

At least I HOPE that is what was happening. I just refilled it and am heating up more water we will see what happens now that I really cranked it down. I would hate to think it's actually leaking from the base itself. If it is doing that, then I believe I am "screwed" as such. But since it didn't fry anything or trip any breakers or my GFCI and its working just fine as far as heating right now, I think it was just leaking through the inner walls and out the bottom, and not through the base where the electronics live.

So far not leaking more... not really hot yet though.

*crosses fingers*

EDIT: heated ok, no leaks... decided to go for it... Mash almost over no signs of leakage. So for sure it was spigot related even though it wasn't coming out the spigot itself. Is next, the boil.

EDIT Again: boiled ok, no leaks. 20 hour slow chill will hopefully not leak. But now pretty certain what I described above is what happened. So anyone with one of these, perhaps good to know.

EDIT Again: so far no leaks during the slow chill. I think I am good.