Newbie Update

[Luthrose]

Hey everyone! So after that first taste a week in, I wondered if I even liked pilsners. I brewed the Pilsner that came with my brewdemon kit and let’s just say that first taste was disappointing. I winced when putting it down. Last weekend I labeled another bottle week 2 (for how long it conditioned in my camp cooler) and forgot about it for the last week, intending each night to crack it open and try it. I just finally did and oh man, that cidery smell is kinda there but I couldn’t taste it hardly at all. I poured almost a pint and that went down so much smoother. I do t know if I like pilsners, but I liked this one! About to put the rest of the bottles from my cooler in the fridge to make room for my Irish red that I’ll be bottling tomorrow. I’m also going to put 2 in glass bottles for testing purposes. Here’s an image of the Pilsner I just tried. And critiques?

[Luthrose]

(Just figured out how to post smaller images)

[bpgreen]

Nice looking beer.

Patience is a virtue. Longer fermentation and conditioning times will lead to better beer. There's a limit to that, though, and at a certain point, it'll start to deteriorate. But that point is usually after months in the bottle.

As an aside, the brew demon kits are all ales. Traditionally, pilsners are brewed as lagers. Brewing a lager is more complicated than brewing an ale. You can get closer to a traditional lager using a different yeast and fermenting near the bottom of that yeast's temperature range. If you like the results from the standard yeast, there's no need to change.

[Luthrose]

Thank you, and thanks for the clarification on the ales. Does this also mean all of MrBeer kits are ales? I was looking at their Classic American Light (to brew for my dad), and their Aztec Mexican Cerveza next. The Cerveza should be getting ready just around spring/summer if I brewed it after the CAL.

About the fermentation, yeah my current brew has been fermenting for 3 weeks tomorrow, which is what I'll be bottling as I mentioned. Really curious to taste the differences. It's crazy to think different yeasts would have such different results! Until I get more familiar in this new world, I'll keep doing things simply unless I end up with a result that I just can't swallow.

I'll update with pics in a couple weeks from my next brew!

[bpgreen]

I haven't brewed a kit beer (mr beer or brew demon) in years, so things may have changed, But most Mr Beer and Bre Demon kits use ale yeasts. They may have occasional special kits that use lager yeasts, but if so, they'll make an effort to draw attention to that and to draw attention to the special steps you'll need to follow to brew a lager.

I think you'll find that a 3 week fermentation will result in a better beer than a 1 week fermentation. It may also be better than a 2 week fermentation, but the difference will be less obvious.

Different yeasts can make a huge difference in the final product. When you're using prehopped kits, the biggest impacts you can make are changing the yeast and changing the fermentation temperature. The default yeasts (Fermentis S-33 for BerwDemon and the Cooper's house yeast for Mr Beer) are good general purose yeasts. They're also very forgiving in terms of temperature. Using one of those, you'll get the same beer from a fermentation at 60 as from 70. If you use (for example) Nottingham, you'll get a much "cleaner" fermentation at 55-59, and some yeasts (especially wheat yeasts) will give fruity, spicy or bubble gum flavors, depending on the fermentation temperature.

[Luthrose]

Oh, that's great to know! That would be a really simple first experiment, simply changing the type of yeast I use then. I would love to find one that adds a bit of "spice", so to speak.

I have two questions though. If I'm using a less forgiving yeast, and I don't realize the temperature is correct and it either stops fermenting or never really gets going after a couple of days, is that batch ruined, or do I just adjust the temperature and add more yeast, and at what point is that batch simply considered bad and I need to toss it? The most difficult area of experimentation for me would be temperature experimentation, because as of right now I'm just brewing on my kitchen counter, and it would really suck if I had to turn the thermostat down to 55-59 for the yeast to ferment properly lol. (Not complaining, just talking!)

Second question, can you explain what you mean when you say a "cleaner" fermentation?

[bpgreen]

When I mentioned a cleaner fermentation, I meant that the yeast isn't adding any flavors to the beer, so it's all coming from the malt and hops.

What happens when you have the wort at a temperature different from what you intended depends on the temperature. If it's too cool, it will ferment more slowly, or, if the temperatuer is too low, not at all. If it's fermented too warml it will ferment more quickly and the yeast will contribute more to the flavor. For some beers, this is actually desired., but for others, it would be considered a bad thing. If it gets too hot, it may produce fusel alcohols. These are bad things (think massive headaches) and won't condition out.

When you talk about yeast adding spicy notes, what kinds of spice do you mean? T-58 is desscribed as spicy/peppery. Belgian/saisson yeasts often produce various spicy flavors, and also may produce flavors like bubble gum.

I haven't done much with these, but others here have and may chime in with their experiences.

[berryman]

Yes that is a nice looking beer to be proud of. BP has giving some good advice. Learning about Yeast is fun but can be complicated and somewhat confusing just starting in the homebrewing world. Here is a link from Mr. Beer that is interesting for some basics. https://www.mrbeer.com/blog/post/yeast- ... gIgcfD_BwE Keep up the good work and keep asking questions as needed.

[mashani]

The Aztec Mexican Cerveza kit makes good beer. Your dad would probably like it too, it's a simple but smooth beer. I don't like some of the Mr. Beer kits since Coopers took them over, because they use a bittering hop called Pride of Ringwood that to me make beer taste like I am sucking on wood chips. But other people don't notice it. But the Aztec kit doesn't have that flavor as something I notice, probably because it's not bitter.

The T-58 yeast that was mentioned makes good beer. Fermented cool (59-66) it's going to be peppery with a little bit of citrus. Fermented warm (68 >) it will start to throw out banana and bubble gum. It is more bubble gum then banana though. If you get into the mid / upper 70s it can become a bubblegum bomb and kind of nuts though. One of the craziest tasting beers I made was when I let T-58 roll at 78 degrees. (I do not recommend LOL)

I actually did some experiments last year where I used it and S-05 (a very clean yeast) side by side in identical batches all fermented in the low 60s. And I actually liked the T-58 versions of every beer better, they were more complex and interesting. (but I like Belgian beer, and some people actually get headaches from the phenols that make up the spicy flavors, and some people don't like more complex and interesting, so YMMV).

Some Belgian and Wheat beer yeasts will be more clove and banana instead of pepper and bubblegum.

The dry Abbaye yeast is a good Belgian beer choice if you want to try it sometime. It will give you tropical fruit, pear/apple, and clove like flavors (more pear/apple/stone fruit at lower and more tropical/banana at higher temps).

The dry Bella Saison yeast will give you a tropical/citrus vibe with some spice at low temps, and will be more spicy and bubblegum at high temps. It will also eat every bit of sugar in your beer and make a very dry very alcoholic beer. I can't stress that enough, there will not be any residual sweetness left, every bit of sugar will be turned into alcohol if you use it. And it doesn't matter if you try to add more malt or anything else to make up for it, it will eat that and just make even more alcohol. It will eat your shoe if you put it in there. The results will be dry and even "tart" (citrusy but not sweet citrus), as you will notice the acidity of the beer a bit more without the sugars unless you brew something stupidly high ABV. That said if you have hot summers, this yeast can tolerate high temps and still make good beer. (Abbaye as well, but this one even more so).

Anyways, if you want to use more "interesting" yeasts like these, I'm a good person to ask for specific advice.

[Luthrose]

Thanks for the encouragement and all of the advice! I'm not going to lie, I'm really interested in trying a bubble gum beer. Not because it sounds delicious, but because it sounds crazy lol.

Of the 7-8 Liters of the One Evil Pilsner that came with my brewdemon, I'm down to 3. It's really good stuff once you let it condition.

Quick question about kits. Is it ok to brew one that's 3 months past "best before" date? I mean, will much have changed in 3 months? There's a heavy discount on a kit that I'm really interested in trying, but it's past its date and I wanted to check with you all first to be sure before I ordered it.

[bpgreen]

If the can isn't bulging or leaking, it should be safe.

It may end up darker than designed and may not ferment as fully, which means lower abv and sweeter than it should be.

But it will still be beer.

If the can is bulging or leaking, throw it out.

[bpgreen]

Another thing is that the difference at 3 months shouldn't be too big.

Ate 6 months or more, you might want to get different yeast. But 3 months should bre ok.

Also, some people detect a twang in beers made from extracts. This tends to be worse with older extracts.

[Luthrose]

For $12 can't really hurt to try right? I'm gonna give it a shot. Thanks!

[Luthrose]

Has anyone used a clarity ferm, and if so, does it affect flavors at all or does it literally just clear up the beer?

[HerbMeowing]

pretty sure clarity ferm is typically used in all-grain batches and not with extracts.

never had a need for it.
maybe b/c the combination of a hard boil ... skimming krausen ... water chemistry ... and a clarifying agent such as Irish Moss makes for no chill haze.